Yusuf Islam.
The funny thing is his plane was diverted to Bangor, ME where I used to live.
Peace Train
(think about it)
I don’t know why people are so appalled by it, if the person had of turned out to be a threat to national security (they obviously didnt know who Yusuf Islam was) the same people would be demanding to know how someone with a listed name managed to get into the country.
Don’t get me wrong - I’m not appalled by it unless there was really no reason to deport him. I’d like to know more about this story.
they obviously didn't know who Yusuf Islam was
If they didn't know him them why was he on the list? Why was Ted Kennedy on the list (think back a few weeks)? They didn't know him either? Isn't the whole point of the list being "We know these people and suspect that they might be a risk"? Are you suggesting it's OK to stick folks on the list because "We don't know them"?
The fact is they DO know him. He gives to many Islamic and other organizations. If any one of those organization is suspected of funding terrorists, even as an unwilling third party, then anyone that gave to those organizations could end up on "the list."
Look at it this way -- I give to my church. It donates to a world relief fund. That fund in turn ear marks money for relief in the middle east. Some of that money gets diverted to a terrorist group after it gets to the middle east --- therefore I gave to a terrorist group and might end up on the list. How far back up the money trail is an acceptable place to stop? How far do we go to know without a doubt these folks that gave money were not part of the terrorist group that got it?
Did I support terrorist when I gave money to my church? Well, if you look all the way back yes I did. Did I know or would have given money if I had known? No way. Who along the path knew?
My example isn't true for me personally as far as I know, though I do regularly give money to my church, but it could be because I know my church gives to relief funds that send support to the middle east.
I've seen reports on the news of that very thing happening. People in my area (Seattle area) are getting arrested and having their businesses taken away - literally boxed up and moved out for inspection by OUR government - only to see a weak apology from the government many months later for their mistake.....We didn't find anything. Here's your stuff. Sorry.
These kinds of actions REALLY piss me off. It's McCarthyism, pure an simple.
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." -- Philosopher George Santayana
http://www.webcorp.com/mccarthy/mccarthypage.htm
(Yes I swiped the quote from the website, but I was thinking it before I found the link.)
If they didn't know him them why was he on the list? Why was Ted Kennedy on the list (think back a few weeks)? They didn't know him either? Isn't the whole point of the list being "We know these people and suspect that they might be a risk"? Are you suggesting it's OK to stick folks on the list because "We don't know them"?
The fact is they DO know him. He gives to many Islamic and other organizations. If any one of those organization is suspected of funding terrorists, even as an unwilling third party, then anyone that gave to those organizations could end up on "the list."
Look at it this way -- I give to my church. It donates to a world relief fund. That fund in turn ear marks money for relief in the middle east. Some of that money gets diverted to a terrorist group after it gets to the middle east --- therefore I gave to a terrorist group and might end up on the list. How far back up the money trail is an acceptable place to stop? How far do we go to know without a doubt these folks that gave money were not part of the terrorist group that got it?
Did I support terrorist when I gave money to my church? Well, if you look all the way back yes I did. Did I know or would have given money if I had known? No way. Who along the path knew?
My example isn't true for me personally as far as I know, though I do regularly give money to my church, but it could be because I know my church gives to relief funds that send support to the middle east.
I've seen reports on the news of that very thing happening. People in my area (Seattle area) are getting arrested and having their businesses taken away - literally boxed up and moved out for inspection by OUR government - only to see a weak apology from the government many months later for their mistake.....We didn't find anything. Here's your stuff. Sorry.
These kinds of actions REALLY piss me off. It's McCarthyism, pure an simple.
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." -- Philosopher George Santayana
http://www.webcorp.com/mccarthy/mccarthypage.htm
(Yes I swiped the quote from the website, but I was thinking it before I found the link.)
Couldn’t agree with you more - phoo.
<!–QuoteBegin>
| Quote |
| “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.” – Philosopher George Santayana |
And what happens when all the social progress we’ve made in the USA over the last 100 years is gone, e.g., unions, 40 hour work week, Social Security, affirmative action, etc., etc.?
Are you suggesting it's OK to stick folks on the list because "We don't know them"?
I wasnt suggesting that.
Once someone has got through the British airport and is on a plane to America...is it possible for America to distinguish positively between one Yusuf Islam and another?
Correct me if im wrong.
It sounds like it was done in error to me, I dont see a good reason why he personally would be on the list.
I wasnt suggesting that.
Once someone has got through the British airport and is on a plane to America...is it possible for America to distinguish positively between one Yusuf Islam and another?
Correct me if im wrong.
It sounds like it was done in error to me, I dont see a good reason why he personally would be on the list.
Jow,
It went down as phoo tells it. They knew exactly who he is, and due to his contributions to Muslim aid organizations, he is “on the List”. Sad and ironic…for what it’s worth, there is some widespread embarrassment about the whole thing over here in the US…and its going to get worse.
Peace,
-Ed
It all sounded a bit unbelieveable to me when i first heard about it, i had assumed it was down to some kind of error…
But in that case, thats pretty bad, and a shame.
…
| Quote (Ali @ Sep. 22 2004,18:42) |
| there is some widespread embarrassment about the whole thing over here in the US...and its going to get worse. Peace, -Ed |
No, I don't think it will Ed.
The images people are going to have in their heads of today will be the butchering.
I fear that thoughts of civil liberties will take a back seat.
So, terrorism is winning it seems. "Might is Right", "Whoever is not with me, is against me".
Can't we just all have flame wars on the Intenet instead? Much less bloody, and far more satisfying.
Ali.
Actually, Ali, the people in the US are already becoming desensitized to these beheadings...Its a shame, but I see it happening.
1. Hostage-taking
2. Demands made by captors
3. Beheading followed by "press releace" from captors
4. Video
5. Statement by President denouncing evil
6. Repeat.
Cat Stevens was HUGE in his day, this is an event that, while not graphic, is very thought-provoking amongst folks worried about the continuing erosion of our freedoms.
Another straw. And another. And another. Time will telll.
-Ed
…
You know what the sad thing is about this ?
Cat Stevens has (numorous times) been outspoken about his position against violence.
He understands that the essence of Islam the way Mohammed intended was more in line with peace and loving than being militant.
He said at one point something to the effect of 'If you kill one innocent person in the name of Allah, then it is the same evil as wiping out a nation’
He has always been spreading a spirit of co-operation and tolleration.
Now if he maybe gave money to an orginization that gave it to a middle man who gave it again to someone to kill ‘infedels’ (I don’t intend any offence here), I might understand that they can investigate the circuimstances, but to blatently just not let him in ?
Sheez.
I have a good friend that is Islam, and I have never met such a dedicated man (towards his wife ,his religion and to humanity).
He takes the good with the bad, and understand that in order to be a leader, you must lead the example by serving.
He is the most devoted Muslim I know of, and yet he (along with Cat Stevens) condemned (sp?) 9/11 and every onther major ‘religious fanatic mass murder’.
But on the other hand you can’t really blame the US for being paranoid.
Maybe they have a policy of 'better safe than sorry’
Watching their backs so to speak.
Regards
Wihan
Stupid.