Greetings,
Here’s what I am dealing with:
* 8 track DAT recorder (brand and model number pending).
* nTrack version 3.3
* Audigy1 and Audigy2 cards in the puter
I have been doing some occasional mandolin tracks on a friend’s recording project. He is using an 8 track DAT and was planning on bringing the project to a studio that uses Pro Tools. However, his funds for the project have withered away and the project is not nearly done.
He asked me if I wanted to give it a try. He is not a real computer guy but I explained what nTrack is and I said that we could try one song and listen to it together and decide if we wanted to continue.
I didn’t take a close look at his DAT recorder before leaving, so I am waiting for him to call back with brand and model number so I can download a manual.
A bit of Google research and it seems that the DAT should have an SPDIF out-right? I have SPDIF INS on my 2 Audigy cards so that is not a problem.
If anyone has further suggestions on the data transfer, feel free to clue me in.
Thanks,
Doug
Hi Doug W:
I wonder if there may be a “Light Pipe” receprical on this recorder? Anything to keep the data in the digital domain. That would be something to check out. Then and if that is present, a card that would install into your DAW could be a way to retrieve the tracks and allow you to continue the project…
Bill…
Bill,
I am not familiar with the term “Light Pipe”. If you got some information about me and the late 60’s, I want you to know that I haven’t touched that stuff for 35 years!
I see references in the manual to TDIF-Tascam Digital Interface:
Web Defintion
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| The TDIF format uses master clock sync and carries eight channels of digital audio on a electrical cable with 25-pin D-sub connectors. Each wire in the cable carries two multiplexed channels, which closely resembles AES/EBU. |
A little more Google research shows that I either have to come up with a TDIF to SPDIF converter or get a PCI TDIF interface-both looking like fairly expensive alternatives.
Anyone know of any old ISA TDIF cards that were made way back then. I might be able to find one of those cheap, floating around the Internet, if I knew which cards to look for.
Doug
Eyup!
Dunno about DAT, never used it, but it is easy to transfer tracks in the audio domain.
I don’t know how many output channels the DAT recorder has, but route the individual tracks to those output(s) and record them via the audigy inputs.
There is a tutorial in the NTrack manual how to import tracks from a 4track analogue tape machine.
I’ve used that method and it works.
Hardest thing is getting the tracks to line up properly, but I expect your DAT machine is much higher quality and as such will have a more stable transport.
Steve
Hi Doug and Beefy Steve:
I am somewhat vague regarding the term “Light Pipe”. Sorry… The term I refer to is the Standard ADAT, and uses that format, can transfer 8-Chanels/Tracks of data at One-Crack…There may well be a standard that is able to transfer more than 8 Tracks but an ADAT standard PCI Card can be installed into your DAW and the “Loose Term” is called “Light-Pipe”. If in fact the Multi-Track recorder you started the project on has an ADAT/Light Pipe terminal … then the project can be transfered to your DAW by means of the ADAT Standard without reverting back to the Analogue format… A/D and then back to D/A isn’t the end of the project by any means. Only thing is there will be a generation loss… Lots of projects I have got involved with, in the past, has an A/D//A/D generation…
Bill…
Eyup!
Ah, interesting stuff Bill. I’m learning something new here.
I did a quick “Google” and there seems to be some discussion on ADAT interfaces in the Sound On Sound forum.
There are also some PCI ADAT interfaces available commercially but they aint talking BeefySteve prices 
If there is a SPDIF out on the DAT machine, then the stuff still stays in the digital domain yes?
Steve
Hi Again Beefy Steve:
What a learning curve there is on all this stuff…
Yes… a SPDIF out on that machine could produce a 1-Track at-a-time file… Well, that’s what I’m thinking… That would be quite acceptable… I think…
How and what interest is going on with me is…
I am considering a behringer ADT 8000 converter… To interface the box to a DAW it is necessary to install an ADAT PCI Card in the DAW… The guy I was talking to regarding this says there is an M-Audio ADAT card that works like a charm to get this setup up-and-running… And, RME makes one of these cards, as well… Price outta sight… I’m considering 1-or-2 of these to replace this out-dated Lexicon Core-32 Hardware I have… This ain’t gonna be cheap… But, either was the Lexicon Core-32 hardware…
If this idea goes… my pocket book and loonies are gonna take an awful beat’in…
Bill…
Gentlemen,
Been fishing all day, just got back. What I have found out about my friend’s recorder is that it is a DAT and not ADAT. There is no SPDIF out, only TDIF (Tascam Digital Interface), It is 25 pin and not SPDIF compatible, so either my friend dishes out some money for a PCI TDIF interface (but they aint talking BeefySteve prices or mine) or we go with Beefy Steve’s suggestion of the analog, one track at a time-then line up the tracks method. The last is probably our route, even though the transfers will take a bit of time for the 12 or 14 songs he has recorded.
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| The guy I was talking to regarding this says there is an M-Audio ADAT card that works like a charm to get this setup up-and-running… And, RME makes one of these cards, as well… Price outta sight… I’m considering 1-or-2 of these to replace this out-dated Lexicon Core-32 Hardware I have… This ain’t gonna be cheap… But, either was the Lexicon Core-32 hardware… |
There is an M-Audio TDIF PCI card that is not being manufactured anymore and I haven’t been able to find a used one for sale so far but it would do the job for around $250.00.
I’ll keep googling until I find one or my friend tells me he doesn’t have the money-then it’s an all analog transfer.
Doug
Do you know how the tapes are formatted? If they are Tascam DA88 or similar, I might be able to help you out, or some other forum members might also be able to help.
Another option for you, if you must keep the project in house, is to purchase a MOTU 2408, the interface I use. Although the current model is still quite expensive, the 2408 Mk II, with the 324 PCI interface, can frequently be found on ebay for around $300. The MOTU 2408 has TDIF capability, and although I was never able to get the ASIO drivers to play well with n-Track, the WDM drivers work quite well.
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| Another option for you, if you must keep the project in house, is to purchase a MOTU 2408, the interface I use |
I really think that he wouldn’t let those tapes out of his sight-but thanks for the kind offer.
I will check out the MOTU 2408 and present the idea to him.
Thanks,
Doug
Note that transferring the tracks one-at-a-time, you’ll have synchronization issues unless you can get the DAT unit to clock your Audigy card(s). I have no idea how to do that with TDIF and Audigy cards.
I bet the DAT unit has at least stereo audio output, so you could transfer two tracks per pass. Still lots of work, though.
To ensure alignment, you’d want to record a sync signal (e.g., one snare hit) at the beginning of all the tracks in a song. But that only guarantees alignment at the beginning. Clocks aren’t perfect devices, and both the DAT and the Audigy clocks will tend to drift a bit, causing potential problems.
If the tracks were all recorded separately (i.e., no bleed), then the amount of misalignment won’t be noticeable. But if he miked a drum kit or something like that (worse yet, the whole rhythm section), the problems are more noticeable. Not a deal killer, just a limitation. The problem is that when you have multiple tracks, you have to realign them carefully to avoid phase cancellation. However, since the alignment will change, the perfect alignment at the beggining won’t work for the whole song. What you’ll experience is a tone change in some sources (e.g., some drums that are nearly equidistant between two or more mikes) throughout the song.
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| Note that transferring the tracks one-at-a-time, you’ll have synchronization issues unless you can get the DAT unit to clock your Audigy card(s). I have no idea how to do that with TDIF and Audigy cards. |
I think that if we had a TDIF unit we could transfer all 8 tracks at one shot digitally-but I am a bit in the dark here.
Hmm, I forgot to check his mixer to see if it had individual analog outs for each channel (I doubt it).
With the 2 Audigy cards hooked together with SPDIF and the kX drivers, I have 8 synced, sumultaneous, analog inputs in ASIO mode and I could suck all the tracks in, but that would be too easy.
Maybe there is a way I can get this thing pumping using my Porastudio 424 cassette deck, along with a Tascam MTS-30 Midi sync and a distributor cap off a '63 Ford.
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| If the tracks were all recorded separately (i.e., no bleed), then the amount of misalignment won’t be noticeable. But if he miked a drum kit or something like that (worse yet, the whole rhythm section), the problems are more noticeable. Not a deal killer, just a limitation. The problem is that when you have multiple tracks, you have to realign them carefully to avoid phase cancellation. However, since the alignment will change, the perfect alignment at the beggining won’t work for the whole song. What you’ll experience is a tone change in some sources (e.g., some drums that are nearly equidistant between two or more mikes) throughout the song. |
There is enough space between songs to put some thwacky spike sound at the beginning of all the tracks for alignment. He has had people come in and record their tracks one at a time: Voc/guitar/bass/harmonica/mando etc. so every track is clean. He was planning to have the drummer come in at the end and has used a drum machine on all the songs to keep all the tunes on time, Maybe if it works out we will just record the drummer directly to the computer.
I have never recorded drums before so that will be a challenge by itself.
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| … and a distributor cap off a '63 Ford. |
LOL
– yeah, those vintage distributor caps have the best tone.Given one-at-a-time tracking, clock drift shouldn’t be a problem. Clock drift would cause phase problems, not musical timing problems.
Well his mixer is an Alesis Studio 24 which has individual outs on each channel so we should be good now. He says he has the 8 ins/outs between the Tascam and the mixer hooked up with RCA cables,(all analog), so I think we are in business!
Description form the manual of the individual channels on the Alesis:
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| Each of the first 8 channel modules on the Studio 24 contains an XLR balanced MIC IN connector, a 1/4" TRS balanced LINE IN jack, an RCA unbalanced RCA TAPE IN jack, an unbalanced RCA DIRECT OUT jack and a 1/4" TRS INSERT jack. |
He also said that he just bought a second Tascam DA-38 DAT recorder from Ebay because he wants to back everything up. This recording project has been going on for over a year and I know that one of the tapes already has a bad spot in it. You can rewind past it forward or reverse but if you stop at the bad spot the tape gets stuck at that point.
He is a Minnesota Norwegian bachelor folk singer so he can do stuff like that when the mood strikes him. With 4 kids, one in college, plus a German foreign exchange student this year, I have to save for 2 months and hide the money to get a package of CDRs to back up stuff on the computer.
Thanks for all the help guys. I am not out of the woods yet by any means on this project but it should be fun.
Skip the mixer and plug the DAT unit’s analog outs directly into the soundcard.
Too bad the guy’s stuck on arcane and outdated DAT technology.
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| Skip the mixer and plug the DAT unit’s analog outs directly into the soundcard. |
Ok, guess there is no point in having the mixer in betwixt the 2.
Thanks