Drums to Midi

n-Track Studio Discussion Forum
21
Quote: (jeremysdemo @ Feb. 08 2009, 10:53 PM)

I don't know why I can hear nothing, might be something to do with my breakout box (M-audio Firewire) or the recent software installments of various Midi configurations.
I have never tried to play a midi file out of my M-adio Audiophile, but I did see them as a possible input and output device when I installed ProTracks.

Mind you, I do not own a midi cable, all these devices (the GNX4 and The Audiophile are connected via USB or firewire, do not know if that is part of the problem.
Perhaps I will open up the newly converted midi file in Ntrack, who knows it may play in there, since I have not messed around with that part of the proggy.

I've not checked the spec but if your m-audio interfaces are anything like my Delta 44 then they have no onboard midi synth - so you won't hear anything by routing to one of those cards unless you have an outboard hardware synth attached (but you haven't got a cable so that will have to wait).

Try routing to a VSTi or, if you really must, the Microsoft Wavetable synth. Then you'll hear something.
22

Hey Jerm - how about posting 15 or 20 seconds of the type of drum file
you are working with and let us have a crack at it.
Plus I see why you want the MIDI - cus you want to use the GNX4 drums.
Yeh - you could do some real cool live stuff if you can get the digital(drum)to MIDI.
A long time ago they thought you couldn’t turn lead to gold. :)

23
Quote: (Mark A @ Feb. 09 2009, 1:23 AM)

Quote: (jeremysdemo @ Feb. 08 2009, 10:53 PM)

I don't know why I can hear nothing, might be something to do with my breakout box (M-audio Firewire) or the recent software installments of various Midi configurations.
I have never tried to play a midi file out of my M-adio Audiophile, but I did see them as a possible input and output device when I installed ProTracks.

Mind you, I do not own a midi cable, all these devices (the GNX4 and The Audiophile are connected via USB or firewire, do not know if that is part of the problem.
Perhaps I will open up the newly converted midi file in Ntrack, who knows it may play in there, since I have not messed around with that part of the proggy.

I've not checked the spec but if your m-audio interfaces are anything like my Delta 44 then they have no onboard midi synth - so you won't hear anything by routing to one of those cards unless you have an outboard hardware synth attached (but you haven't got a cable so that will have to wait).

Try routing to a VSTi or, if you really must, the Microsoft Wavetable synth.
Then you'll hear something.

Hmmm....

I know inside Ntrack I can play a midi click track, so I hoping to conclude that there is a way to play midi files on my PC.
I am not sure tho, if it is a midi track being played or merely triggered at the proper BPM (midimapper?) in other words there is no "midi file" for each BPM, only a "sound" (like hi hat) being triggered at the proper BPM.

That is why I asked earlier if I need a MOTU or something to continue.
I am going to read more about this GNX4 from the manual tonight and tootle with it a bit more and see what it either does by itself in midi or with the help of the computer to try and determine if any other devices are chords are going to be needed.

keep shinin

jerm :cool:
24
Quote: (sevenOfeleven @ Feb. 09 2009, 9:28 AM)

Plus I see why you want the MIDI - cus you want to use the GNX4 drums.
Yeh - you could do some real cool live stuff if you can get the digital(drum)to MIDI.
A long time ago they thought you couldn't turn lead to gold.
:)

Hey Jerm - how about posting 15 or 20 seconds of the type of drum file
you are working with and let us have a crack at it.
Will do, do you want the wav. file or the one I tried to convert to midi?
I would like a second opinion on the midi, like if anyone else who plays midi files hears anything when it plays....

Plus I see why you want the MIDI - cus you want to use the GNX4 drums.
Yes I will most likely utilize the onboard Midi drums in the GNX4 for live on the fly productions.
I prefer acoustic drums with a human feel, I know I can get close with "humanzing" and putting fills in and such along with using the good sounds from those guys form Nashville, but it is so time consuming to program those things....
The other alternative for me if I cannot successfully change the backing tracks to midi is to simply use the MP3/wav. playback for the backing tracks and just change the guitar FX manually as I play.
I don't mind shelling out $30 buck for a good proggy that will change the wav. file to midi if I knew it worked, but I it stands the few proggys I have tested I am not able to hear if it is successful or not.

keep shinin

jerm :cool:
25

I have no idea why I’m not grasping your "one man band concept"
You play guitar and want a full band.
If I read you right you want people to come away with - “Man that dude can sure midi trigger”!?
I would think you might free yourself up to Shred guitar and not samples or your nerves…??

I just don’t get it - what am I missing here?

The same result can be had by self-karaoke.

26
Quote: (Poppa Willis @ Feb. 09 2009, 7:43 PM)

I have no idea why I'm not grasping your "one man band concept"
You play guitar and want a full band.
If I read you right you want people to come away with - "Man that dude can sure midi trigger"!?
I would think you might free yourself up to Shred guitar and not samples or your nerves...??

I just don't get it - what am I missing here?

The same result can be had by self-karaoke.

I am shredding guitars, only using the device (GNX4) to play backing tracks (eg, bass, drums, some keys) trying too....

The device also records and loops, so if I was singing and playing a rhythm I can press record, then press play (within the same BPM) and it will play back the last rhythm I played while I either switch to lead or do another counter rhythm, utilizing this component I can layer tracks live on stage, you can do the same thing with vocals if you wanted to.
NONE of the guitar parts that are going to be played are "karaoke" or sequenced midi they are all played live on an Ibanez into a Mesa Boogie, by a half-human half-Borg yours truly.
The only things that are preset are the beats, bass lines, keys(although I may play some of them live) and which specific FX (flange, amp sims, distortion etc etc) the live guitar sounds are going to go through at what times in the song (eliminating the need for me to keep pressing down various FX pedals)

It is karaoke in the same sense that a symphony orchestra is playing along with a metronome or guy waving his baton (keeping the timing).

IT is karaoke in the same sense as well as Rush would be without the drummer.

IT is a basic three piece ensemble, bass, drums and guitar, only difference is instead of a person playing the bass and another drums it is "tracks" of real bass and drums or midi sequences which even bands that have bass and drummers use these days, so many I can't even write all their names down on a single sheet of paper.
27

Anywho,

I played the “midi” file that I converted from the part of the real drum track…in my old familiar shoe Ntrack…old faithful.

It did play four notes, they were piano in tone.

I think this has something to do with the selection I chose when converting it from wav. to midi, it asked it if was multiple instruments or a single and I said single.
Also I have found a codec for dbpoweramp that said it was for midi, however in their disclaimer it said it was impossible to convert an audio track into midi…which is what I think people here have been trying to tell me all along.
I was hoping the midi codec for db would work since I already own that converter licensed, but alas another dead end.

One thing I did notice inside Ntrack, was that I could pull up a wav. file and a midi file and play them both at the same time, I did not have a properly configured midi file to see if the BPM’s of the two were the same.

There has to be a way to align Midi files with wav. files in real time so that I can sequence the FX changes and use that midi file to trigger them while the wav. is playing.

THat is where I am at, because I have given up trying to change a acoustic drum track into a midi file that will sound like the same track and I am not getting into a huge programing project for midi drums right now when I already created digital drum tracks tediously for all of these as drum references using Fruity Loops and piecing them all together in Ntrack, a year of my life I will never get back.

keep shinin

jerm :cool:

28

So - let me get this straight… the reason you don’t want to record your backing tracks and play along with them with your guitar being the only live instrument is because you want to triger your backing tracks live and compose/perform at the same time? Live?

Your explanations are more confusing than my questions, and I’m genuinely trying to grasp the concept.

29
Quote: (Poppa Willis @ Feb. 09 2009, 8:50 PM)

Your explanations are more confusing than my questions, and I'm genuinely trying to grasp the concept.

So - let me get this straight.... the reason you don't want to record your backing tracks and play along with them with your guitar being the only live instrument is because you want to triger your backing tracks live and compose/perform at the same time? Live?
Not exactly, I do want to record my backing tracks in fact I already have the recordings of them.(real drums and bass)
Also I do want to play along with them.
As I said the ONLY thing being "triggered" via midi files are guitar FX, these are sound effects that normally I have to push pedals down to do (eg. flanger, wah wah, distortion, reverb, amp sims, delay.)
The device plays back Mp'3 and records wav.
I just don't know if an Mp3 (backing track) is going to line up with the Midi sequences necessary to trigger the wanted guitar FX at the same time.
That is why I was wanting to convert the audio files (backing tracks) into midi, I thought that would have been simpler but it turns out it is impossible.

The device does allow me to use it's onboard midi drums live which is a whole other project, and "trigger" different things on the fly if I should so desire and I do plan on doing that stuff down the line LIVE but right now I am just trying to get past the first step...reading more of the manual....and finding out all that I need to do.

keep shinin

jerm :cool:
30

So all you need to do is write one midi trigger track in sync with your already recorded audio and when you hit play the midi track will trigger your effects - piece of cake - thanks for finally getting the idea through to me - you can do that. Should be possible.

31
Quote:

...you want the wav. file or the one I tried to convert to midi?

Well - both. I'm feeling greedy. Like those capitalist imperialist CEO types. ???
32
Quote: (Poppa Willis @ Feb. 09 2009, 9:46 PM)

So all you need to do is write one midi trigger track in sync with your already recorded audio and when you hit play the midi track will trigger your effects - piece of cake - thanks for finally getting the idea through to me - you can do that. Should be possible.

I am hoping it is possible, so far I have not gotten a MP3 into Ntrack or Protracks so I have no idea if that is possible yet.
I can bring wav. files into them both easy enough.

But still do not know if the timing is going to be off on a Mp3 from whatever Midi FX sequences I use (lined up to a wav. of the same track)

Timing is crucial even a half second can mean the difference between the distortion coming in on the last note of the verse or second note of the chorus.

I am not going to have a PC on the stage, so it would seem playing the wav. sile (unless recorded to the one of 8 tracks available on the GNX4) is out of the question.

So the main thing I gotz to find out is will the resulting MP3 be in close enough timing to play along with the Midi track so that the FX go off at the right time.
That is what this device is designed to do, so I just have to hope it does so efficiently.

Honestly I do not even know where to begin having never made a midi file.
I opened up PROTracks Plus and was instantly baffled by it's many selections, took me about a 1/2 hour just to figure out how to bring a wav. file into it and make a blank midi file, still have not been able to do anything to the midi file but stare at it's long block like shape.
I opened a piano roll and put a few blocks on a grid, but nothing happened when I played them (although midi sounds do happen in NTrack for me)
I read the manual and it is pretty vague as well it seems to be worded in such a way that it assumes the person reading it already knows the basics about midi.

One thing was neat tho.
When I went into Ntrack I tried to set the metronome to another sound other than "click" beep beep annoying,,,,,
And I found a whole bunch of options from Cakewalk to Fruity loops to Ntrack drums that I never knew were there.....

keep shinin

jerm :cool:
33
Quote: (sevenOfeleven @ Feb. 09 2009, 10:02 PM)

Quote:

...you want the wav. file or the one I tried to convert to midi?

Well - both. I'm feeling greedy. Like those capitalist imperialist CEO types. ???

Midi file
34

J, I have just spent 10 minutes reading this thread, and I believe you may have some misunderstanding of how MIDI works. When your demo program played back those 4 piano notes, it was not making any sounds of its own. It was sending a signal to your soundcard to play a sample of a piano sound Windows has stored on the hard-drive in a file called a soundfont. It could just as easily be triggering any sound - it just needs to be told what sounds are there to play. If you plug a midi cable from your computer to a keyboard, when you record what you play as midi you are not recording any sounds at all - there is no such thing as a ‘midi sample’, for example. You are recording commands, like 'send this much voltage to this device at this time/ send this much voltage at that time…

Same thing with your effects gizmo; midi commands can be sent to it to change settings like verb, or what beat to play, but the midi does not create or record any actual sounds - it just tells the machine when to play its sounds or which changes to the effects to effect.

There are lots of basic midi lessons available on the net; it’s worth every minute spent finding. DLing, and reading them.

If I have totally mis-read you, and you alrady know all that - well, please don’t tell me; I’m very fragile… :laugh:

'til next time;
wynot

35

So I wasn’t the only one! :agree:

36

To insert an mp3 file into N you hit CNTL+1 or from the top menu TRACK/INSERT WAVE FILE
I’m still using ver 6.0 - so if you are using an older ver. I’m not sure

37

Musical
Instrument
Digital
Interface


"MIDI is an industry-standard protocol defined in 1982 that enables electronic musical instruments such as keyboard controllers, computers, and other electronic equipment to communicate, control, and synchronize with each other."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIDI

It tells a synth when to start playing and when to stop. What the synth sound like has nothing to do with MIDI (strictly). A single MIDI NOTE ON EVENT can play ANYTHING, from a single note to a complete mixdown song. A MIDI NoteOnEvent triggers whatever the sound is from a sine to a sample. A MIDI NoteOffEvent says stop playing that sound.

The more I read the more I think all you need is a drum machine that can be started and stopped at will.

As already mentioned many times, it’s nearly impossible to take a mixed wave file and convert it to MIDI, and whatever is converted, there are NO sounds whatsoever. It’s not worth the effort. It is SSSSOOOOO much easier to program a drum beat…I suggest learning how to do that. You will have a new very useful tool for the rest of your life.

(no PW, you aren’t the only one)

38

http://www.intelliscore.net/product.html

39
Quote:

Midi File


That's the output of intelliscore? Yikes!

Probably needs more tweeking.

You could spend a lot of time trying to get your wav/mp3 drums to midi -
and you could probably get close using a beat-slicer and then
use something like Fruity's Beat-to-midi and then then use a midi editor
to put it all back together. This works for short loops, but I wouldn't want
to try it on anything more than a couple of bars. And it's mainly for percussion
loops.
It may be better to recreate your drums using
midi based pattern drum software
like EZ. (Then change the mapping to whatever GNX4 uses)
Now see that would be a good (paying) service for someone to provide.
40

Thanks for all the feedback guys.

After reading the most recent post(s), there is yet a question or two.

1. for phoo:

A single MIDI NOTE ON EVENT can play ANYTHING, from a single note to a complete mixdown song

Ok I think we may be on to something here…
IT would seem by the above statement I need the file format that midi “plays”, not midi itself.
in other words I need to convert my mixdown drum beats into this format, then create a midi file to play a single note on event.

Does that make sense?

BTW I already used Intellescore in fact mentioned it in the thread the other day, and the Midi file I posted was converted using it.

my device will play MP3, so I am hoping I can “midi” trigger the Mp3 I need to play the the begining, so that all the FX will switch at the proper times.

2.sevenOfeleven- thank you for informing me Mp3 can be brought into Ntrack, I will fiddle around with that. I am on a 5. (something) version.

I have been programming drum beats for years, nothing new there, as I mentioned before all the drums are programmed before the drummer even plays them, the device also has a Midi drum in it for live use, I prefer live drums with the type of music I do (prog rock) and I will prevail in this effort to do so.

keep shinin

jerm :cool: