General opinions about N

n-Track Studio Discussion Forum
21

I agree that stability is the major issue at the moment.
I don’t really think I need any more features (obviously better. more efficient processing is good as it allows us to do more with the same features).

But just little things like the playback stuttering with fairly simple projects or it crashing if you try to add or remove some plugins whilst playing mean you have to tread carefully and save often.

I’ve been trying out Tracktion over the last few weeks and whilst I initially didn’t like it when I tried it ages ago, after a bit of a learnign curve, one thing I have discovered is that it is SUPER stable.

I can play back multiple tracks, jump the position marker all over hte place, add and remove fx and VSTi’s on the fly and it won’t crash. (It obviously pauses for a second whilst adding or removing some plugs, but then keeps playing fine)

I still like N’s interface better and have a lot of works in progress in N, but for simply getting a song down and not worrying about hte system crashing, I’m leaning towards Tracktoin at the moment.
And I hate to admit it, but if I’m starting anything new at the moment I find I’m doing it in Tracktion.

If N improves it’s stability then that will all change

Rich

22

I have been using N-trac for only a couple of months and I am very happy with the program. I only use n-trac for editing and things are going well. I record on my AW16G and then import wave files to the lap top.
I have had a ocasional crash but since the orginal tracks are in a separate machine I have yet to lose anything important. I also back up everything do on N-trac to a external hard drive.
The laptop is only 256 so I think when I am using a couple of effects in mastering I am running out of memory thus causing the crash. Boosting the virtual memory seems to have helped the machine not to crash.

23

I know that Cakewalk is known to be very stable, and I’m about to break into my still-in-box copy of it- but no, I won’t forsake n-Track. I’ve invested too much time in it! I have also been invested in time-wise, by many of the people on the forum here! Don’t see the good in wasting it. I think it’s a good program, totally useful. It just needs to be more solid (ad nauseum…).
That Tracktion actually looks kind of cool- but I understand why it’s a turn-off to some. You definitely have to get used to it. I got the demo but didn’t have time to fool with it. I’ve used Sonar, so I got Home Studio 4.

24

Hi Everyone:
I’ve been listening to CD’s tonight and pondering what the issues are with the Studio P-111 DAW that I use for tracking… I spent this morning and part of the afternoon trying to get back ON-Track with this current project, that I’m in the middle, of… So, I here at my Editing Desk and playing some CD’s here while I’m browesing the Board and Topics and All… I stand corrected as I write this reply… but I hear the same hesitations that I’m hearing when I rip the same cut from the CD and play IT on n-Track… It’s never consistant or in the same time frame all the time . It’s a random hesitation… I’m useing WMP v10 build10.00.00.3990 Is that the same/current build that everyone has installed on their DAW’s?

If I didn’t know better, I’d say that WMP v10 has the same issues that n-Track v4.1.6 has when streaming audio… Of course, if you’re streaming several tracks of audio from your drives useing n-Track then the issues would stand to reason that IT would be more pronounced…

It would be nice if some of you could collaborate-or-confirm this… I would say that this issue is deeper than what meets-the-eye… :O ???

Bill…

25

Hi , although I have not been at the forums regularly of late
I am still using Ntrack very regularly.

I’m using build 1846, and I think it’s a good build
just before the .net versions arrived.

For me Ntrack has served as the basis
of my musical projects which are
mainly using VST’s controlled by a midi controller keyboard,
recently I’ve started shifting towards using samples and, or,
converting outputs from midi driven VST tracks into WAVs.

I wish I was brave enough to update to the newer versions of ntrack but, at the moment, I’m not because, I’m basically addicted to 1846 stability and, the devil I know.

Ntrack seems fine to me in terms of the integration between audio and midi,
I am using midi tracks generated via controller to play VST’s, and it’s
all good. Naturally, it’s a wise man/woman who saves regularly to avoid
sadness when a crash happens. And, ntrack will crash if you really
want it to, but, mainly it’s quite forgiving.

As I work more with sample cd’s I have started to
want/miss the time stretch/paint samples approach of Acid though,
when dealing with importing WAV’s/samples.

Importing WAV’s/samples is somewhat clunky and time consuming
compared with Acid. Apart from that I’m still pretty much enjoying Ntrack.
The Midi aspect of Ntrack is basic in some ways but it is stable and functional
and integrated quite well with the audio aspects of the program.

I do realize that stability can easily be tested and stressed by using
32 bit float WAVs in numbers and in combination running live VST’s etc,
however,basically, Ntrack is up to the task as long as you have a decent soundcard
and a decent system/ram/chip etc.

In a nutshell I have been finding Ntrack to be reliable and enjoyable
but I do pine for an Acid type solution
for quickly mocking up loops and beats.

regards

26

Hi stormboy:
You have posted a pretty nice accounting of how you use and where you’d like to see n-Track evolve…

I have not used any other multi-track editor other than n-Track… so, I am unable to comment on how n-Track behaves in relation to other Editors…

However, when I use S.I.R. it is a VST Impluse Response conveluter Effect plugin, I use the files that are written to a CD where I “Point” the S.I.R. to the CD reader that I use for that set-up. and S.I.R. is able to read/find the IR Samples with no difficulty… I used to point S.I.R. to the drive that I had them on… but at some point-in-time I noticed that the CPU load behaved at a lower reading when I pointed S.I.R. to the CD Reader… instead…

So, haveing said that… I see no reason why other VST and VSTi Samples may work in the same fashion as any other S.I.R. Samples while useing n-Track…

I’m gearing up and looking forward to useing n-Track v4.2.0 that has a virtual Drum Machine added to the list of plugins… Mabey the samples that are used for the Virtual Drum Machine will work in the same fashion as what you are describing. We’ll see…

Bill…

27

I think a great addition to the program would be an autosave feature that numerically increments each time, rather than overwriting itself. EG SONG1, SONG2, SONG3 etc. This would be better for people like me, who constantly hit SAVE after every take, but that doesnt help if the original .sng file goes tits up… :slight_smile:

28

I begain recording back when v 2 was prime, and purchased v 4, but found it hadn’t gained much stability in two versions worth of “progress”. All i saw was more fluff, probably creating new bugs.

Personally, I think since the primary “target market” is the beginning recordist on a budget, N-track should be as simple and stable as possible, with a few essential extras, but not at a sacrifice to stability. Or have two versions, the ROCK SOLID STABLE WITH FEW FEATURES and the [b}LOOK AT ALL THE PRETTY COLORS AND BUTTONS![/b} version for those who know what they’re doing.

I have since migrated to Sonar and Cubase due to the lack of stability in N-Track, and i have a few key suggestions feature wise. Forgive me if these features already exist but I hadn’t discovered them.

1. OMF import/export, so you can collaborate or transfer the entire project to be mixed on another platform/program (Pro-tools, Cubase, Sonar)
Or, as an alternative, batch export all the tracks to different wav files starting from absolute zero to the end of the last recorded audio data. (eg. "Track01.wav, Track02.wav…) along with the individual midi files of the instruments the same way “Midi01_Strings.mid”, “Midi02_Cello.mid”…


2. The ability to drag/snap either TO, or RELATIVE TO Beats/Measures, for easy chopping and rearranging in keeping with time. VERY powerful features in both Sonar and Cubase.

3. An easier way to produce a click track in midi format, with the possible output of midi timecode to an external device (drum machine…?)

4. A plug manager for those of us with a plethorah effects that are difficult to wade through, and take almost 60 seconds to load everytime a file is opened (or edited). One scan when the program starts, or somehow have the program scan the computer for changes in a pre-written database of already installed plugins…

5. It must be hard to figure out the real source of program crashes when few people can recall what they did to cause a random crash. I suggest some way of automatic bug reporting via internet or email. I’m not a programmer, but this makes sense does it not? you can’t fix it if you don’t know what’s wrong.

again STABILITY STABILITY STABILITY

if those are/were in the program, i might consider coming back, and promoting the program to aspiring musician youth types. It would also make transferring what i already have in the archives over MUCH easier.

-DN

29

hi again,

woxnerw: I think that it’s worthwhile downloading
a couple of demos of other software recording solutions
just for reference, acid, traction etc, are worth a look,
even just for perspective.
(This being true, I am not at all interested in jumping from the Ntrack barge into the unknown myself).
However, the other software solutions do offer additional/different features, some of which are interesting
and explain why things are as they are.

For example Acid, it has excellent workflow for manipulating
loops of different tempos quickly and it does it with pure style,
the downside is that it’s mixer and bussing aspects are hardly
recognizable if you’re used to using Ntrack. As well even though
the latest versions support VST effects and instruments,
It’s all pretty clunky when compared to the relatively seamless and integrated VSTi support that one enjoys with Ntrack.
(At least this is my current view).

dazzi_g: I reckon it’s very good practise to save regularly,
but, if you simply change your method to Save As instead of Save, you are much safer through the development of a track
especially as you have versions of the track at multiple stages of development. So, I agree with you that incremental saves
would be a nice feature. I do that anyway, and my songs may have upto 60 saves before they get to a point where I
need a break from them!

30

I am still on version 3.3 which has been pretty stable but not perfect. I am reluctant to upgrade mostly because I am concerned about compatibility and stabillity. I figure I will wait until the “dust settles” (if it doesn’t I may make the jump anyway although I don’t see any compelling new features yet). I may do it for no other reason than to throw some money at Flavio to help make sure he can afford to keep doing what he has been doing.

I voted for stability but I am particularly concerned about tracking. While I don’t like crashes during mixing and especially if they cause a loss of .sng information, tracking needs to be rock solid. Losing that “once-in-a-lifetime” take due to a program crash or other similar problem is the biggest disaster you can have in recording (Ok maybe being hit by a meteor while contracting bird flu with the house on fire during an earthquake would be worse but you know what I mean). So while I am generally comfortable with the stability of 3.3 the occassional failure during tracking can be a real problem. I have had a coincidence of the rare crash coinciding with an excellent performance and it is very frustrating. Fortunately, I am not doing this professionally otherwise I would have to find a different solution for tracking. I may choose to go the dedicated recorder route anyway eventually.

That said, things could be much worse and I find the program generally stable.

The big question is - What will happen once Vista becomes the standard operating system? I know I will not even think about switching for 6 months to a year after it is introduced and hope that improving N-track performance under Vista does not compromise XP. I know that Vista is bloated and will require 1 gig or more of memory to run “well” (whatever that means). It will probably also have a lot of background processes to be disabled. Anyway, if it is as bad as the early reports indicate I will probably continue to use XP for the forseeable future. Maybe Flavio has some comments about Vista.

Jim

31

I voted stability as well.

I had to revert to 3.3 and the only error I get is when I’m closing the program: Windows throws it’s “ntrack.exe has encountered a problem and needs to shut down…” message. But once I click “Dont send the info…” I can start up the program again and work for hours.

Weird.

I would like to use version 4.x because I like the ntrack EQ and compressor that were only add-on’s in version 3.x but I just can’t get the newer versions to work with any amount of stability.

I will stand by my hunch that this is largely due to the fact that the newer versions are based around .NET. I am a huge Microsoft fan (there are a few of us out there) but feel that .NET is one of the biggest blunders they have ever made. It makes the Java Runtime environment look like a thing of beauty.

Anyway, I love the n-track intercafe and ease of use. I tired demos of the big 'uns (Cakewalk, ProTools, Cool Edit … sorry, Adobe Audition) and had to waste time just trying to add a new track, let alone getting anything setup for recording. With n-Track I installed it, plugged in my guitar and had 4 tracks down in under an hour.

My note to ALL software developers out there: Stop adding new features and nail down stability. I can’t say this enough. I work for a software company and I rail about this all the time (much to the chagrin of my boss). “Users don’t care if you add ten new, shiny features in the next version if it CRASHES ALL THE TIME!”

32

Ive found build 2065 to be quite stable in the sense that it doesn’t crash and loose a newly recorded track as long as I stick to using EQ and compression that are built in. My son also uses SONAR, and I can say that it seems to me to crash more frequently than build 2065 (although admittedly, we usually have a lot more going on in SONAR). BUT there are some compatibility problems (but not crashes) when I start bringing together files of different sampling resolution or recording MIDI keyboard input. You can induce crashes pretty easily with plugins. I’m also having a problem with zooming in on wave displays so I can’t manually time-align events/files by looking at peaks. But as long as I stick with straight-ahead tracking, I can run for hours without a problem, even while I’m connected to my LAN.

Windows systems are just so variable it is hard to sort out general problems with ntrack from problems that are caused by very specific machine/driver configuration differences and Windows/driver shortcomings/bugs. I wish Flavio good luck in dealing with this morass. He’s done remarkably well so far.

33

for me, the most important thing is stability, consistency, and efficiency. i don’t really care what it looks like. i would actually prefer if it took longer for new features to be added if it meant they were tested better. the problem i find with n-track is that i can go and download the latest version and it may have a minor problem or bug, and by the time i get around to downloading the latest version that fixes that bug, a bunch of new features have been added which introduce a new bug, etc, etc.

my next feature suggestion is to get rid of all the gradient and antialiasing stuff to save another few k of memory :)

whenever the testing team gets going, sign me up.

34

I haven’t loaded the newest version, but unless things have changed, you can turn off the “fancy” display features.

35
Quote (tspringer @ Mar. 29 2006,16:07)
Windows systems are just so variable it is hard to sort out general problems with ntrack from problems that are caused by very specific machine/driver configuration differences and Windows/driver shortcomings/bugs. I wish Flavio good luck in dealing with this morass. He's done remarkably well so far.

*applause*

Very well put.

And even with all the stability issues, Flavio has creates a #### awesome program for the price.

I wish him luck as well.
36
Quote (bax3 @ Mar. 29 2006,20:10)
I haven't loaded the newest version, but unless things have changed, you can turn off the "fancy" display features.

Agreed.
Most of us are here because we don't need the fancy interfaces other multitracking software sports.

We want something that works.

When dealing with crashes last night, one of the things I noticed the 4.1.x version doing was drawing the wav in realtime with gradient, shadowed graphics. As my recording went on I noticed everything slowing down. Nothing completely unworkable, but still ...
37

off-topic somewhat: It’s incredible that nobody’s girlfriend thinks N-Track is waste of time. Mine certainly does! ???

38

Quote (Scythe @ Mar. 30 2006,09:00)
off-topic somewhat: It’s incredible that nobody’s girlfriend thinks N-Track is waste of time. Mine certainly does! ???

So what do you suppose that says? Got N-track, ain’t go no girlfriends? :D

“Ralphie, when are you gonna meet a nice girl and settle down?”
"Leave me alone ma, I’m buzy recording!"

I am just lucky that my girlfriend is a music type herself and gets it.
39

You guys have got to learn the art of convincing your girlfriend (wife in my case) that they really need to go shopping more. I’ve found that dodges lots of problems. Since we live in a small town shopping trips to the big city can be quite long. Also her opinion on how much of a waste of time ntrack is varies directly with what’s on her mind, and thinking of shopping keeps her from thinking about all of the other things that I need to do. Finally, recording while she sleeps has had a good track record for me. But I digress from the purpose of this thread…mea culpa. Gotta go talk to my wife about a shopping trip anyway.

Tim

40

… or get yourself a girlfriend like mine who writes the vocal melodies and lyrics to the music I write. She’s a #### fine singer too.

The only complaning I get is: “When are you gonna stop farting around with the guitar parts and let me record sone vocals?” :p