so as im building my studio the ? has come to me what sort of hard ware should i invest in. so I was wondering what sort of gear you guys use what plugins and why one is beter.sort of a pros and cons thing.
Litmus
Is this going to be a small home studio or something major?
For a small home studio I find that using a good mix of hardware and software works best. Maybe a good little hardware mic/instrument preamp like the Presonus TubePre to warm the main signal of vocals or guitars…then throw something like rubytube saturator plugin in the efx chain afterwards. Endorphin is a good pre-mastering plugin as well, used properly. I’ll try to think of some other things and post later. Feeling mindless, bah.
Small but,I was just wodering what you guys thought of processing out side the pc on the way in . if you guys used a lot of rack mount stuff and what not
Litmus
Room treatment for starters,
A good LD condensor, a good sd condensor, a good dynamic. A few more if doing multiple tracks.
Soundcard depends on what you’re recording (number of tracks)
Outside my desk the only outboard I have is a 4 channel compressor/limiter. Going to get an ART DIO, and some other tube (or good quality SS) mic pre shortly.
Willy.
For outboard gear I would probably concentrate on things that will allow you to record as good a treack as possible.
ie. Don’t worry too much about fx but focus more on the mics and mic pre’s.
Also maybe a compressor to control you levels going into your soundcard when tracking.
Fx can be achieved with plugs most of the time but if the track you recorded is crap then fx aren’t going to be able to fix that really.
If you get a good track recorded (decent strong level and little noise) then the fx have a lot better starting point to work with
Rich
Right: concentrate on mikes and preamps, as well as room treatment.
Assuming you have a 24-bit soundcard and good analog signal path from mike to soundcard, you shouldn’t need a hardware compressor or limiter (though some folks like to use them anyway). This is another one of those religious issues: some swear that any modification of the signal before recording is heresy, and others feel equally strongly that you just can’t get the perfect sound without this-or-that compressor/limiter. Of course, anyone who only sees one side of the issue isn’t seeing clearly.
But for most recording purposes, if you have the luxury of an occasional do-over on a clip, outboard compression is unnecessary. And remember, you can’t undo something once it’s been done. So, I think it’s best to start out without outboard hardware and learn to use the tools and see where that gets you. Then, if you want to try a compressor, great – they definitely have their uses. Especially when recording something that can’t be done over if you misjudge when setting levels and clip as a result.
Ok So a compresor isnt really needed but what about a mic preamp ?
Litmus
You’re getting good advice here, Litmus…
The quality of your final product is the result of quality hardware/software and knowledge/technique.
That’s about 20% hardware/software and 80% knowledge/technique.
Focus on learning the art of recording (Phoo’s suggestion for AudioMinds is a good place to start) with basic equipment first. Then, adding better equipment will make the biggest possible improvement.
Somebody with great equipment and no knowledge of how to run it produces… well… crap.
Somebody with cheap equipment and lots of knowledge of how to run it can produce pretty decent results.
When getting started, read, read, read… Then open N and try out what you’ve read. This starts the necessary ear training that allows you to distinguish the subtle differences reverb, compression, and EQ can make.
Ok, i didn’t mean to preach. Sorry.
Hardware…
- Good quality mics and preamp should be a priority. And you don’t have to spend a fortune on this stuff. Some very nice equipment is available for just a bit more than the junk. Also, since most of us use a mixer for monitoring, buying a decent mixer with decent mic pre-amps makes sense. It kills two birds with one stone, as it were.
- Room acoustics. Don’t underestimate the importance of getting your room tuned for recording. If your room emphasises certain frequencies and mutes (thru phase cancellation) others, your recordings will sound ugly.
- Decent monitors. You can’t fine tune what you can’t hear. If you’re trying to mix on headphones or standard stereo speakers, you’re not hearing a true representation of what’s really there. Stereo speakers are designed to make everything sound good. As engineers, we need speakers that accurately reproduce what’s been recorded.
- Quality sound card is important too, but probably comes fouth.
This will get you started. Most of the fancy rack stuff would be well down my list of necessary purchases.
Hope this helps some…
teej
Thanx Teej
Litmus
| Quote (Litmus @ Mar. 28 2005,14:39) |
| Ok So a compresor isnt really needed but what about a mic preamp ? Litmus |
Now, I pretty much disagree with the idea that you don't need a hardware comp, and with the whole "save it for later" approach. Make it good going in, commit your self. Hardware mostly sound better than plug ins, esp. when it comes to compression. At least try both.
Mic preamps - oh, they are so much more important thn most people realize.
It seems like you would want as good of a sound going in as posibel
It seems like a hardware eq would be prudent, no?
Just a thought
litmus
| Quote (Litmus @ Mar. 28 2005,22:25) |
| It seems like you would want as good of a sound going in as posibel It seems like a hardware eq would be prudent, no? Just a thought litmus |
Well I think so, but I like the sound that you get from putting things through transformers and such.
It's sort of an age old debate - well, not quite age old, but one that started when significant processing after recording became possible - should you try to get it right going in, or fix it later, or a little of both? Seems to me you want to do as much to get it where it needs to be at the beginning, so that only a little bit of work needs to be done to it later. This means having a good conception of things at the start. Plus the plug ins available to those of us with only limited budgets (that is, free stuff
) are mostly not quite at the level of reasonable hardware. There are some exceptions. By the way, you mentioned the presonus preamp - remember, just because it has tubes does not mean that it will make things sound "warm." Low plate voltages to the tubes are common in Art and the like, and sound like garbage when compared to a tube preamp with high plate voltages; and in any case most of the "warm" rock sounds we all love come from Neve like designs - transformers and transistors. A couple of us here have and use old tape decks, which have tube pres running at high voltages and transformers - that combination, with an sm57, will give you really good rock vocals. Anyway, don't buy into the tube = warm hype, 'cause it just ain't so.
Quoth Teej:[qulte]That’s about 20% hardware/software and 80% knowledge/technique.
[/quote]
Read the above and repeat to yourself 10 times.
I’ve heard truly excellent mixes posted by folks with little more than a soundblaster, cheapie mixer, and SM58 mikes. And I heard complete garbage posted by folks with thousands of dollars of gear. Here’s my order of importance – very rough of course:
1 - composition
2 - arrangement
3 - performance
4 - instruments
5 - engineering
5 - mikes & preamps
6 - soundcard
7 - software & PC hardware (as long as it does the job)
I assume that all the above are at least adequate. But I believe built-in line inputs on many computers are quite adequate. I defy anyone to listen to the tracks on my CD at my website (below) and tell me which were done using a line inputs and which were done using a MOTU 828. No doubt the whole thing would sound a big more open and clear with better mike pre’s & etc. But it’s an example of what you can do with minimal gear, a fair amount of amateur-level recording experience, and an amateur-level performer (me). In a living room.
I have the opposite opinion from TomS: get the sound right going in, meaning don’t mess it up. Just like cooking: start with good ingredients, and don’t ruin 'em. Anything you do before recording can’t be undone. And EQ & effects should be adjusted while listening to the whole mix, since that’s the only context that matters. This is especially true for beginners!
Folks with lots of experience who’ve been recording the same kind of material (like their own guitar) for ages may well develop the ability to know what “good” means going in, when the only context that matters is “in the mix”. Beginners often fuss way too much on individual tracks when they should focus on the mix.
Now, about mike preamps. If you have a mixer, it has mike preamps built-in. Use those and learn what they sound like and what you can do with them. Then definitely try others, because they can make a big difference (once you’re doing a good job of recording and mixing in general).
Finally, while I stress that experience matters a lot, it’s still true that very simple recording setups often work wonderfully. We stray away from simple for specific reasons, not because we like knobs to fiddle with, etc. Experienced does not mean complicated (necessarily).
Another point: USE WHAT YOU HAVE. Learn it, what’s good about it, what’s bad about it. With nothing for comparison you won’t always know. Add new gear slowly, and compare what it can do versus what you use to use. This is the quickest and best way to learn, IMHO.
well litmus matey i’m not gonna mention gear’’‘cos others av said it already mate’’‘but wen yer got tha gear togevver yer gotta record a gillion tracks fer about 5 years n then yerll come outta da recordin tunnel a lot wiser’’‘record anybody n anyfin yer can get yer mitts on n yer gotta pay yer dues n bild a rep’’‘jus cos yer got a ssl n boutique stuff dont elp less yer understand wot a recordin engineer does n only way ta do dat is ta record lotsa tracks n screw up time after time’’’‘welcome ta da mad world o’ recordin’’‘n as me ole granny used ta say yerlll know wen its a good loaf a’ bread (song) yer baked cos it tastes (sounds) so blinkin sweet’’’‘
startin up me advice is dont spend gobs o’ money’’‘jus learn learn learn by recordin lotsa people’’’’ 
| Quote (Limey @ Mar. 30 2005,07:50) |
| well litmus matey i'm not gonna mention gear'''cos others av said it already mate'''but wen yer got tha gear togevver yer gotta record a gillion tracks fer about 5 years n then yerll come outta da recordin tunnel a lot wiser'''record anybody n anyfin yer can get yer mitts on n yer gotta pay yer dues n bild a rep'''jus cos yer got a ssl n boutique stuff dont elp less yer understand wot a recordin engineer does n only way ta do dat is ta record lotsa tracks n screw up time after time''''welcome ta da mad world o' recordin'''n as me ole granny used ta say yerlll know wen its a good loaf a' bread (song) yer baked cos it tastes (sounds) so blinkin sweet'''' startin up me advice is dont spend gobs o' money'''jus learn learn learn by recordin lotsa people''''
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Am I the only one who doesn't find Cletis here ammusing? I'm guessing everyone just skips over his posts every time? It was funny the first 20 times. Bah...early mornings.
i think you’re the only one.
If you’ll take time to read what the man says, you’ll see the wisdom.
teej
teej and Limey are totally right. Reasonable equipment is only a condition for the possibilty of good recorded music, not any kind of guarantee. I figure I only have 1/2 a gillion tracks to go before I get something acceptible. Strangely enough, however, I do seem to be improving.
And no, silvermach, I am so pleased to see both Limey and teej back here more regularly.