Hi
My sister & I have been recording with ntrack for a few years, she plays bass & me guitar.
We are not super technical people!
We’ve started recording again & I am having the same old problems.
I use a Behringer Vamp2 guitar modeller & all the rock rhythm tones just sound bad with lots of top end clipping, not like valve amps at all. The last album we did took me ages to get a useable sound & then we had to spend more time changing it in post to gt something decent.
How do other guitarists using ntrack with a guitar modeller get decent sounds & what’s the best way to connect everything? We use a small Behringer mixer.
Dont know if I’ve made myself clear but we’d really appreciate some help. Thanks.
Tina
I don’t use any of the equipment you mentioned and since this would be only a guess, I would say given what you’ve said, might a windows setting issue, the input into the computer be it your line in or your mic line, whatever one you use to record into the computer might be over driven. This will result in poor sound quality. As you know, in windows there are separate volume sections for both the playback and recording. Make sure the volumes for both your playback and recording are not 100%. Set them to about 85% to 90%. Anything above this can lead to clipping and distortion of the incoming/outgoing(Record/Playback)signal.
For example, provided your using line-in as your source input.
In the “Windows Volume Control Panel” under the “Playback section”, “Wave” slider should be around 85%
In the “Windows Volume Control Panel” under the “Recording section”, “Line-in” slider should be around 85%
Hope this helps,
PACO
I second what Paco said.
I don’t have the Behringer Vamp2, but I do have and make much use of a Pod Xt Live, and have no problems with added distortion when recording to n-track, as long as I keep all levels in the input chain at good settings.
If you run the Behringer Vamp2 into a clean amp, or line inputs to a stereo, do you still hear the bad top end clipping?
thanks for the ideas, I will try them out tomorrow morning & post back here afterwards.
Tina
Yup! I use a Line6 Pocket POD (amongst other things) with no ‘extra’ distortion issues.
Try looking at, connectivity, soundcard/quality and settings and drivers
You should check your signal through it’s complete path. Slap on some H-phones and listen to the output of the V-amp…Once you get where you want it… on to the mixer. Most mixers have a control room and/or a h-phones out. Once you think you have your pre-amp gain and fader set again listen to the mixer via the control room or h-phones out.
If you monitor your input at the sound card and you dont hear distortion as you record your guitar, but do on playback, I would not only look at what Paco suggested but also the soundcard driver. You may want to look into ASIO4ALL: http://www.asio4all.com/....or possibly a better soundcard.
Duff
I had to borrow an amp, I sold mine to buy the Vamp2!
Anyway the Vamp sounds great through the amp, with the amp on a clean setting, lovely full tone & the valve amp sims sound good.
Plugged back into the PC it sounds bad, the full tone has completely gone & it resembles a fuzz box more than a valve amp.
Drums always seem to record ok, bass guitar is rather flat sounding, & vocals have been doing some strange things when we multitrack them.
We have a proper soundcard, a M audio Delta 44 we had installed years ago & i can see in Wave Devices it says M audio Delta Asio. Does that mean we have the right driver?
We have made sure playback & recording volumes are set lower everywhere.
This poor guitar sound is present before i turn n track on.
I will try to follow the sound on headphones as duffman suggested.
Unfortunately we dont know a lot! if you heard our stuff you would probably be amazed how far weve managed to get without knowing how anything works!
Many thanks for all the help.
Tina & Sarah & Allison
This place is rammed with experts in all areas of audio - just keep asking the questions and they will be answered.
As shown above, your problem could be one of many but will probably turn out to be something simple - the fact that you have sound at all is good and you’ve ruled out n-Track as being the culprit.
For now, follow duffman’s plan and link to asio4all which is a cross platform asio driver that runs with most set-ups. And/or go to M-AUDIO http://www.m-audio.com/index.php?do=support&tab=driver and download the latest drivers, then you’ll have ruled out another possible gremlin.
I plugged the headphones into the Vamp2 & the guitar sounds great.
Then i tried the headphone socket of the mixer & it sounded even better.
Where do I go from here because the guitar sound coming out of the PC is tonally flat, thin & like a cheap fuzz box.
Cds, mp3s & tracks weve mixed down sound fine.
I havent opened ntrack either.
I’ve downloaded that Asio4all driver but dont know what to do with it?
We really should have a guy in this band!
Tina
Well, I’d suggest the process of elimination. Start by testing the audio of your PC. Do you have onboard audio, meaning theres audio inputs connected directly to the mother board, you might want to disable it in the BIOS temporarily while you test? I suggest you make sure the PC can reproduce the audio quality your looking for ie: wave files, mp3’s ect ect… Something just crossed my mind while I was thinking about your situation. Could it be possible your using the wrong line in on the PC? Look at your connections, check for a bad cable. Keep us posted.
PACO
I'm a girl but there are more than enough guys round here for your needs (I think?).
Where can we hear your tunes? Describe them?
We’ve managed to install the updated M-Audio & Asio drivers, & the sound has improved a lot.
But its still not as good as the guitar sound before it goes into the PC.
Is that normal?
We thought we had a good monitor, itsa Edirol MA7A. We thought it sounded fine, but tonight now we’ve got this new Maudio mixer we cant seem to control mp3s & WAVs & they sound distorted.
The soundcard has a break out box so I’m sure were using the right inputs.
Just want to thank everyone again for the help.
Our band website is deathbyguitar.webplus.net for anyone who’s interested.
Tina
Using the delta box, this is how I think it should work but I have no experience with it, I’ve just looked over the manual a little and I think I can help.
Use “line in” 1&2 on the break out box to plug your guitars in, this signal needs to be line level, meaning it should be coming from a preamp.
Next use “line out” 1&2 and connect those to the external mixer.
To record to the computer from the mixer, use the line out’s on the mixer and plug them into the “line in” 3&4 on the Delta 44.
From the manual,
"“1. The default setting, “WavOut 1/2â€, connects ports OUT1 and OUT2 to your
music software or Windows multimedia applet. In other words, when music
software plays audio to the device named “WavOut 1/2 Delta-44†it will be
routed directly to the “hardware†outputs 1 & 2 of your Delta 44's break-out box.
2. The second option, “Monitor Mixer,†connects ports OUT1 and OUT2 to the
outputs of the Delta 44 monitor mixer. For more information of the capabilities
of the monitor mixer, please see the section “Monitor Mixer Page.â€
3. Selections three and four connect the hardware analog inputs 1&2 or 3&4
(respectively) directly to the Delta 44's hardware analog outputs 1&2. For
example, if “H/W In 1/2†were selected, any signal present at the IN1 port will
be copied to OUT1, and any signal present at the IN2 port will be copied to
OUT2. When “H/W In 3/4†is selected, the routing behaves similarly.”“
If you use this above information you will not hear it mixed from the mixer, try the information below
”“1. The default setting, “WavOut 3/4â€, connects ports OUT3 and OUT4 to your
music software or Windows multimedia applet. In other words, when music
software plays audio to the device named “WavOut 3/4 Delta-44†it will be
routed directly to the “hardware†outputs 3 & 4 of your Delta 44's break-out box.
2. Options two and three connect the hardware analog inputs 1&2 or 3&4
(respectively) directly to the Delta 44's hardware analog outputs 3&4. For
example, if “H/W In 1/2†were selected, any signal present at the IN1 port will
be copied to OUT3, and any signal present at the IN2 port will be copied to
OUT4. When “H/W In 3/4†is selected, the routing behaves similarly.
At this point, you may begin to realize the versatility of the Monitor Mixer and the
Patchbay/Router, and the relationship between the two. You may want to re-read this
section and make some practice adjustments within the Delta Control Panel software
to become proficient in routing and mixing. If somewhere in the process you
become confused, you may always restore the default settings to use the card as a
straight 4-in 4-out device — just choose the topmost option in each of the
Patchbay/Router columns.”"
So if I read this right the default will always be HW/3 and 4 if “it’s” selected in the Delta control panel. Since the incoming “Mixed” signal will be coming in on “line in 3/4 on the delta breakout box” you’ll want to select that in the Patchbay/router section.
See image, but please note leave “H/W out 1/2” on monitor mix.
From there you’ll want to goto the “monitor Mixer Tab” and adjust meters there so they don’t clip. Your external mixer will be where you make tonal/quality adjustments.
I know I’m taking a risk trying to help you with this since I don’t use it. So go easy on me if it doesn’t work. Next is setting up n-track.
So if it all works you should be able to select in n-track the m-audio ASIO drivers for both recording and playback. When you add a track you’ll want to select m-audio 3 and 4 as recording input, now this is where I don’t have pictures or know what is available for you in n-track. We can assume the signal from the mixer is coming into the computer on line 3&4 so try to match that up when adding tracks in n-track. Hopefully with this setup, the only change from the default installation of the M-Audio drivers and software will be from the image posted here. I’m hoping playback won’t be an issue and will be routed back to your mixer so you can hear the recording made by n-track.
Just side Note: Be sure to set-up your sample rates the same for both n-track and M-audio device IE: 16 bit@44,000hz is a good place to start. Sample rates play a big part of the audio quality.
Hope this helps
PACO
That’s really kind of you Paco, writing that out for us in such detail.
It looks a bit formidable, i hope we can follow it.
Can we ask again: Should what we hear coming out of the Vamp2 headphone socket sound the same as what we hear coming out of the PC speakers? This is playing “live”, before being recorded.
Thanks
Tina
Quote: (TinaM @ Sep. 18 2010, 7:05 AM)
Can we ask again: Should what we hear coming out of the Vamp2 headphone socket sound the same as what we hear coming out of the PC speakers? This is playing "live", before being recorded.
Thanks
Tina
You will find that what you think you hear and what you record can be very different.
Duff
Sometimes like with the Native instruments tractor 1, (which is a USB interface, similar in respect to what your using the difference being it’s not a PCI card) will only record dry even though you hear all the effects while you record) I’m not sure this is the problem your hearing. It should be very close to what your getting from the v-amp2. I mean thats what you want to hear. It should be close to what your hearing in the headphones.
I have a suggestion if the routing advice I gave doesn’t work. A shorter version with a slightly different setup in routing:
Run L&R out from V-Amp2 to the Mixer.
From the Mixer, Run L&R line out to Line in 1&2 on the breakout box.
Use M-audio default settings.
PACO
Wow, thanks mainly to Paco & Duff we are now getting a pretty good sound, & what’s really good is that the stuff we’ve recently recorded is now sounding great, so we wont have to rerecord it.
One big problem we now have is pops & clicks on playback. Sure we’ve read about this, is it to do with buffering? How do we eliminate it, please?
Tina
This is great news. These pops and clicks is due to lag or your ASIO buffering (increase just a little) or look at lowering the volume a little. Here’s a link to my stuff if your inclined “The George Stanley Band”.
http://www.motagator.net/bands/972/info.php
3 women with guitars count me in!!! Did you get my PM message??, love to hear from you.
PACO
Unfortunately our joy was short lived!
The guitar may have sounded great at last, but the updated M-Audio soundcard drivers played hell with the playback. Crackling, pops, the audio dropping out.
We went to the M-audio forum & there seems to be some unresolved problem with the SP3 drivers.
We read someone say use the SP2 drivrers but when we tried to install them we lost our soundcard. So we uninstalled them & took the computer back with system restore to when we started this thread! F***ing Great!
Is anyone using a M-Audio Delta 44 (or 2496, I think theyre all affected) with Windows XP & SP3 with the newest drivers successfully?
All I want to do is play my guitar!
Tina