all the way
IT’s been a while since I posted anything…
I do know about the pop around 1:30-ish, still trying to find which track it is on…(I suspect it is on one of the vocal tracks and happened during a edit)
The intro was sort of an after thought as was the ending.
All The Way
As usual will take and appreciate any advice on the mix or song structure and/or instruments used in general.
Special thanks on this one (on many to follow) to D, (for the Soundcraft suggestion) Mark for the J-Station suggestion and everyone else who has offered help and advice over the years.
keep shinin’
jerm 
Jeremy, that is a quantum leap over anything else I’ve heard you do. I like the minimalist drum thing.
This only confirms what I suspected all along… 
The only difference between me and the other musicians was the equipment! lol
But seriously Tom, the “minimalist” drum thing was not intentional, you know me, if I had the opportunity I would have put a live drum track there, which may have at the least had a cymbal! tee hee
But alas artist collab is no more…
We can thank Ole’ Fruity loops for it’s contribution 
Oh I almost forgot, a special thanks to Tom, for the Mustard seed 
keep shinin’
jerm
Well, lots of good art is the result of accidents and limitations. I suspect this would have been less interesting musically if the drum track had been the usual thing. Don’t change it, IMHO.
People make a lot about how we should all be able to make good music with a stick mic and a thrift shop guitar, but it is equally true that usually the product is better if the equipment is better. One should never, e.g., buy one’s kids cheap instruments - nothing discourages the learner more than a bad sound, and that learning might think he or she is the cause, when it’s the instrument. Yup, a lot of the difference between our recordings and pro recordings is simply an equipment, and hence a money issue.
(ducks)
Quote: (TomS @ Mar. 23 2008, 9:40 AM)
Well, lots of good art is the result of accidents and limitations. I suspect this would have been less interesting musically if the drum track had been the usual thing. Don't change it, IMHO.
I was watching an Eurythmics interview the other day and the "limitations" that their equipment put on the songs which seemed to express the same sentiment.
There is something off about the track I have not yet defined yet.
While I was recording I accidentally deleted a vocal track on the chorus then I had to retrieve it out of the recycling bin and place it back in the song....
For some reason after that it just seemed a little off, the feel of it, I checked all the other instruments and they all seem to be in line with the click, but that pesky vocal just throws it.
I heard we have a bit of leeway with a vocal, a half sec or so one way or the other doesn't make a difference, but in this case I think it did.
No one seems to notice that has heard it so far, but I do....it's one of those things I suppose I'll have to live with,
if I can't fix it.Speaking of "the difference between our recordings and pro ones" I tried to use the mastering FX on the multiband compressor in Ntrack for this song and it didn't help.
I noticed the volume of this track is lower than that of store bought CD's and was hoping that I could raise the overall volume with the "mastering" plug.
The effect was just more bass, too much, even though I thought I left enough head room on the tracks to raise them altogether....
I suppose I could just raise the overall volume of the mix without mastering and that would make a louder CD when burned...but was trying to do it the "pro" way without saturating the mix.....
keep shinin'
jerm
wouldn’t let me load the page! i’ll keep dinkin’ with it.
Sorry it is a rather large file, and the server may be flooded.
keep shinin’
jerm
Probably the setting on the multi band emphasizes bass. Try just putting the kjaerhus limiter on it, set pretty lightly. Or reset the multi band so that the lower freqs are not pumped up so much.
I can’t get it either Jer… I’ll try again in a bit.
Nicely done Jer ! great imaging in the mix. Reminds me of “Don’t let Me Down” by the Beagles.
Only thing I am hearing is the foot need one more beat to match the guitar chunks in the one section - I miss that second kick drum on the first half of the bar.
Nice piece of work.
I echo that. Good stuff.
Sounds a bit like Jack Johnson…don’t know if he’s known in the states.
It’s good the way it is and you’ve only put in what needs to be there.
You’ve inspired a new tune out of me…cheers!
Quote: (TomS @ Mar. 23 2008, 12:14 PM)
Probably the setting on the multi band emphasizes bass. Try just putting the kjaerhus limiter on it, set pretty lightly. Or reset the multi band so that the lower freqs are not pumped up so much.
I am not real certain what a kjaerus limiter is or where it is in the latest build but I will look for it now that you mentioned it.
I'm afraid I am not real knowledgeable about the "multi-band" guess I only used whatever preset was loaded.
I'll just have to put my foot out on the water and walk.
Quote:
Nicely done Jer ! great imaging in the mix. Reminds me of "Don't let Me Down" by the Beagles.
Only thing I am hearing is the foot need one more beat to match the guitar chunks in the one section - I miss that second kick drum on the first half of the bar.
Nice piece of work.
Yep I concede the Beatles were a heavy influence on the writing of the song, previous recordings of it from the 80's make that more obvious!
I was hoping it would be less so with this rendition, but alas hiding a good Beatles knock off is not as easy as it seems
Only thing I am hearing is the foot need one more beat to match the guitar chunks in the one section - I miss that second kick drum on the first half of the bar
If you could be more specific one where that would be valuable information to me. 2:34? a time or part of the song eg verse, chorus.
The drum beat was slapped together with 10 sec chunks since I do not own a registered copy of Fruity loops and it only allows me to export it in that size at a time.
It is possible I snipped a part off during the long and arduous task of sequencing it.
Quote:
I echo that. Good stuff.
Sounds a bit like Jack Johnson...don't know if he's known in the states.
It's good the way it is and you've only put in what needs to be there.
You've inspired a new tune out of me...cheers!
Thanks for the kind words.
Any comparison to someone who is already professional and known in Europe is quiet the accolade for me!
I did have a lot more for the song, but did chose to cut much of the parts since it seemed to cluttered, along with reducing much of the volume of the keyboard and twelve string guitar of the parts that were kept of those instruments.
I did spend a good deal more time on the mixing of this than I have in the past on songs.
Total recording time was about 10 hours, while mixing took about 2-3 weeks, which if anyone knows me knows is unheard of for me to even spend that length of time on a song.
WOW, you are the first to ever tell me that I inspired them! I'm used to being on the other side of that sentence...tee hee
This is all completely unexpected and overwhelming.
Thanks everyone for such kind words and encouragement
It has given me the courage to post more as other songs are finished.
If anyone is curious as to how the sound was achieved here is the gear list:
P4 2.2G Asus computer,
LCD monitor(to reduce interference)
Soundcraft compact 10 mixer (shielded cables 1/4 in and 1/8in)
M-audio Firewire Audiophile Interface
CAD Trion 8000 Tube Microphone
Fostex flat response monitors
Johnson J-sation guitar amp sim
Ibanez electric guitar
Yamaha 12 string acoustic
Peavey Jazz bass
Casio keyboard
Ntrack latest build
No midi was used.
I'm not against it, just don't have the cables to hook these devices up that way yet.
keep shinin'
jerm
Multi-band comp is dangerous - it really requires a lot of experience and knowledge to use it properly. I know this b/c I lack both. In any case, it is definitely not the kind of thing you can use a preset and expect it to work, unlike, say, a flanger.
The Kjaerhus free vst stuff is at the link below. You might want to go and get all of them - they are good sounding and free. I could get by with nothing more, actually, although I really like some other things, e.g., the PSP stuff.
Here’s the link - what you want instead of the multi band is the mastering limiter - but do not over use it!
http://www.kjaerhusaudio.com/classic-series.php
Quote:
If you could be more specific one where that would be valuable information to me.
Nope. I was hearing a double kick to match your guitar - out of curiosity I layed in a drum track with it doubled and yours sounded better - the double kick took away the free feel of your over all performance.
I'm even more impressed now that you say all you had were 10 sec. loops - great job!
thanks Tom for that link.
I forgot to mention the plugs that were used.
Tubeamp was used on the acoustic guitar.(clean 2 setting)
Freeamp was used on the base and keyboard. (various stacks and virtual mic positioning)
Slight chorus on the main vocal along with the preset “vocal” compression in the multiband that comes with Ntrack on the second take (I used doubling).
All the electric guitars FX and amp sims were done through the J-station, and honestly I do not know how, since it is a used device and had various patches in it that are not factory presets. MarkA are you listening? still looking for a good site to download more patches…
Also the cost of this set up may be of interest to someone.
P4 2.2G computer with XP installed (used on Ebay) $95
LCD monitor (used on Ebay) $53
Soundcraft mixer (like new Ebay) $111.16
Fostex monitors $85
J-station$82.50
CAD Trion 8000 Tube Microphone (used Ebay) $135
M-audio Firewire Audiophile Interface (used Ebay) $74
Ntrack upgrade for XP $25
Various shielded cords $40
Total cost $618.16US granted I already owned the guitars! 
It seems like a lot, and usually I update gear during income tax time and this would have been a wollup for me all at once.
But this year I was like the ant, and slowly purchased each piece at opportune times when they were affordable for my budget.
If you watch ebay, and Amazon, Zzounds, and tiger direct you’d be surprised at the things you can find for well under retail year round…people just need money some times and get rid of valuable gear for a fraction of the cost in those situations.
What I am trying to convey for those whom are on a low budget like me is that it does not take a whole lot of money at once to get a set up that will produce semi professional results.
One just needs to know what one needs ahead of time and have the patients to watch these various markets until the opportunity presents itself to pick up the necessary gear at a price that is both affordable and equal to at least half the retail value of the item.
keep shinin
jerm
Quote: (Poppa Willis @ Mar. 23 2008, 9:46 PM)
Quote:
If you could be more specific one where that would be valuable information to me.
Nope. I was hearing a double kick to match your guitar - out of curiosity I layed in a drum track with it doubled and yours sounded better - the double kick took away the free feel of your over all performance.
I'm even more impressed now that you say all you had were 10 sec. loops - great job!
Oh thank God!
I don't think I could take one more day trying to mix this thing!
The song is already permanently implanted into my cerebral cortex even a scrub of the frontal lobe could not erase it...tee hee
The first beat reminded me of Phil Collins "the air tonight" which was the clean and electric sound I was going for for the verses...then I needed something more rocking for the hook so I dropped to to realistic drum samps to match the riding heavy guitar.
Then I just used the same pattern but with all base notes for the stops, was trying to imitate heart beats, but sort of settled for 80's synth low bass sample that was in Fruity.
Originally this was at 150BPM, but I dropped it to 75 for some of the tracks because the frequentness of the 150 was making my rhythm response to constricted and mechanical sounding.
The 150 helped to line up the many many fragments of beats, but hindered the natural feel and flow of the live performance.
Just trying to share as much as I can with those whom are interested in learning more about the processes that come together to create a viable piece.
keep shinin'
jerm