Freke and Gandy overstate the case a bit and rely on a strained reading of “the” “gnostic” (note scare quotes around both) texts mostly from Nag Hammadi. They rely heavily on Pagels, as well, which is not a bad thing at all, but you would be better off reading her stuff first. I just can’t buy the central thesis. I guess having texts like the stuff in Nag Hammadi requires us to think oddly about the subject, however.
Bob, you are familiar with the work of the folks in the Jesus Seminar? Funk, Crossan, Borg, Brandon Scott? Also a must read is anything by Burton Mack.
[edit - I’m editing out a comment I made here]
Well, Spong liked it, anyway!
I’m with Bob on this one.
God is a sham, and this Jesus character.
It’s obvious the Bible was written by a race of alien beings who have been visiting us since pre-Egyptian era’s. It’s is an attempt to scare us all into limiting our sinning. 
Turns out they are using earth to breed food…that food is us! They feed on our souls, and when we have too much sin, it leaves a foul taste in there mouth! 
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| Secondly: Bob, I assume you are a regular member who decided to use a different name on this occasion. Why? Is it because you felt you had something controversial to say? If so, why not say it under your usual name? |
Well the evidence certainly is not leading in that diretion.
Would not a existing member know how to quote something?
Definite newb,
jerm
Are you guys still feeding the trolls? I go away for a week and this dopey thread is still alive…
It’s troll season Bubba.
They’ve spent the winter hibernating; then when the welcome warmth of spring arrived they went into a breeding frenzy; and now in the hot languid days of summer they’re starting to swarm.
Anyway, the plan is…
Tim and Jerm feed them, lulling them into a false sense of security, and meanwhile, I’m standing behind disguised as a drunken Scotsman, (Ok, I was never very good at original disguises 
) anyway, I have a big stick with a nail in it, and as they relax and contemplate the wonders of nature and their place in it, I whack 'em one!
It’s called ecology. 
Ali
Personally, I don’t see why my failure to register an account makes me a troll.
If a christian came in here denouncing satanism, would you call him a troll? Nope, you wouldn’t, you’d give him a pat on the back and welcome him to the club.
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| I’m with Bob on this one. God is a sham, and this Jesus character. It’s obvious the Bible was written by a race of alien beings who have been visiting us since pre-Egyptian era’s. It’s is an attempt to scare us all into limiting our sinning. Turns out they are using earth to breed food…that food is us! They feed on our souls, and when we have too much sin, it leaves a foul taste in there mouth! |
I find it funny when christians use arguments like this to try and make the atheist feel as if he has a ‘way out there’ opinion…I’m not the one that revolves his life around a logical impossibility.<!–QuoteBegin>
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| Would not a existing member know how to quote something? |
You did notice the second post right? Bah, why am I bothering responding…
TomS, I have to admit Freke and Gandy didn’t have much new to say, but large amounts of it add up to compelling evidence.
I didn’t have any problem with the central thesis personally, given the lack of evidence for the currently accepted thesis, it made alot more sense.
And as far as I am concerned, the Nag Hammadi library forces us to change our ideas about the original teachings.
To just disregard them, as I have seen many people do, is just to admit that you have no interest in the truth.
I haven’t read as much of the work from the jesus seminar as I’d like, it’s pretty high on my list of things to do though.
Nag Hammadi does. you bet. Start with Mack’s books on Q and then “Who Wrote the New Testament?” I think you will see that F and G’s thesis is not well grounded in the evidence, although the best inferences about the formation of Christianity do include some of what they argue, in a modified way. The story is just more complex than they have it, and in any case the gnostics are just one of the variety of early responses to Jesus - that is, the historical Jesus and not the Jesus of either G. Thom. or the synoptics or John or the community that wrote the Hypostatis of the Archons
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| Personally, I don’t see why my failure to register an account makes me a troll. If a christian came in here denouncing satanism, would you call him a troll? Nope, you wouldn’t, you’d give him a pat on the back and welcome him to the club. |
Not so “Bob”. Most folks on here know better than to jump in and start stomping people. You are entitled to your opinions and feelings on the matter. I certainly will not risk offending you to prove you wrong (or right).
Like I said, not ALL Christians are radical, self-righteous pricks.
TG
PS Sign-up and lets talk music and recording.
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| Not so “Bob”. Most folks on here know better than to jump in and start stomping people. You are entitled to your opinions and feelings on the matter. I certainly will not risk offending you to prove you wrong (or right). Like I said, not ALL Christians are radical, self-righteous pricks. |
Well I really didn’t mean to cause offence, I just see things differently to most people, to me, opinions and beliefs are there to be challenged. I like nothing more than being proven wrong in debate.
And there is nothing you can say about my beliefs that could possibly offend me.
I was perhaps a little harsh in my first post, and probably appeared dogmatic, but I’m not really like that.
Be secure in what you believe and enjoy yourself… 
| Quote (SOULTOKER @ Aug. 24 2005,10:16) |
| Be secure in what you believe and enjoy yourself......
|
Yay, the world is flat and I can indeed beat any man in the the Ultimate Fighting Championship!!!!
| Quote (Guest @ Aug. 24 2005,03:55) |
| If a christian came in here denouncing satanism, would you call him a troll? Nope, you wouldn't, you'd give him a pat on the back and welcome him to the club. |
On the contrary my freind. I'd say it's even harder for a Christian to get a pat on the back in this club!...lol
But, registering and standing behind your words does seem to hold it's own weight.
There's plenty of people around here who would be willing to debate what color the sky is today till the cows come home....but most of them would rather do it with someone whom they feel is REAL, and isn't a phantom person.
All it takes is a few seconds of ones time to register. Heck, even if you use a fake email (which is the only info required) it shows character of some sort, albeit a dishonest character, but one none the less.
IT worked! I’m now officially a troll! LOL
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| Yay, the world is flat and I can indeed beat any man in the the Ultimate Fighting Championship!!! |
The second I’ll accept,
, but the first?How could it be? It would contradict all the unquestionable evidence for a hollow earth and the advanced civilisation that lives therein.
Where do you think us trolls come from anyway?
Ali
Don’t feed the trolls they say…but I’m starved…what’s for supper?
As I understand it, Trolls eat Hobbits.
| Quote (Guest @ Aug. 24 2005,15:22) |
| Where do you think us trolls come from anyway? Ali |
I don't know but they seem to vanish as quick as they appear!
Leaving behind a mystery of who they are, and where they are from.....intreging to say the least!
jerm
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| As I understand it, Trolls eat Hobbits. |
Crap…I better watch out. Supper might be me.
(5’ 4" – ain’t that short but it’s short enough for a troll to make a mistake)
oops, wrong thread.
All you hobbits wait til sunrise, zap, trolls be stone.
Ali, don’t forget the rousing rendition of “Rawhide”, thus the Western.
Personally, I am deeply gratified that the thread has elevated itself to the present level.
With my best Richard Nixon voice-
“I am not a troll”… 