N as master/Korg Electribe as slave
Last weekend we had someone around who to put some percussion and drum tracks on some songs we are working on. He brought a USB MIDI interface and a KORG Electribe drum machine .
The USB interface was an M-Audio Midisport 2x2 which we had trouble installing but which was recognised in the end and appeared to be working OK. However I now realise that we didn’t need it at all as I have an Audiophile 24/96 which has MIDI out, d’oh!
Anyway we tried to configure N to send MIDI clock out to the KORG so that it could sync with N. We had problems initially in that the Korg was obviously not in time with the track although it would start at the same time as we started to play/record. Eventually by fiddling around it seemed to be in sync. The next night we noticed that as the song progressed the drum machine would gradually lag and get progressively more out of sync which became noticeable over 3 minutes or so.
I’ve had a look at help and am confused. All we are trying to do is send MIDI clock out. The 2496 has a crystal clock which is what I want to use, I think, but I can’t see how to tell N to use this as help says:
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| Use internal timer: use the internal timer instead of the soundcard’s clock reference (recommended). |
But I’m not sure what the internal timer is, isn’t it better to use the card’s clock?
So the question is if I want to use the Delta 2496 MiDI as the MIDI out device how do you recommend I set up the clock out?
Thanks for looking
Martin
I’ve done exactly what you are trying to do with my drum machine. It was many moons ago but I’ll try to remember…
It sounds as if you are going along the right steps and you obviously have the MIDI connected up OK as from what understand from your post, the Korg receives the “Start” command from n-track. However, it seems that the Korg is not clocking from MIDI - it is using its own internal clock which is why it drifts out of sync over time.
You need to force the Korg to sync to n-tracks MIDI clock output - there will be a setting in the Korg somewhere to tell it to use a MIDI or external clock. That should do it.
The MIDI clock dialogue in n-track is a little confusing - especially IIRC it’s hard to tell whether the buttons are up or down.
Let us know how you get on.
X
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MIDI sync output last worked in Build 2193 - (have not tried 2215 yet ) there is no MIDI sync output in any version after 2193 - so untill thats fixed ? -
set MIDI sync to output MTC to M-Audio Midisport 2x2 out A and MIDI clock to out B - when sync works you will see the two leds flash as code is sent -
Dr J
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| You need to force the Korg to sync to n-tracks MIDI clock output - there will be a setting in the Korg somewhere to tell it to use a MIDI or external clock |
The drummer set up the Korg but I’ve looked at the manual and he knew about setting it up as a slave using external clock but it’s something I could check when he comes back. I’m pretty sure it was set up right though.
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| especially IIRC it’s hard to tell whether the buttons are up or down |
Yes it is. I’m sure they are disabled when shaded blue around the edge.
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| MIDI sync output last worked in Build 2193 |
Well I’m pretty sure we’re on 2187 but I guess i’ll hold off on updating to the latest version which I was planning to do.
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| set MIDI sync to output MTC to M-Audio Midisport 2x2 out A and MIDI clock to out B |
Right, the drummer seemed to think we only needed to send MIDI clock and not MTC and I’ve checked the Korg manual and this appears to be the case.
I’m still unsure what the system timer is that is recommended in N Track and what might cause the Korg’s timing to drift. could it be down to a driver/install problem with the Midisport?
Anyway there are a number of settings in the clock dialog, as follows:
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| Enable: enable MIDI Clock generation Offset: offset that will be added to the generated MIDI Clock Use Start, never Continue: always send the MIDI Start signal instead of MIDI Continue Send Song Position Pointer: send the SPP signal to notify the slave of the new position within the song Wait after sending SPP: waiting to allow the slave to cue to the requested position Use internal timer: use the internal timer instead of the soundcard’s clock reference (recommended). The internal timer resolution is set through the Preferences/MIDI dialog box 30 fps non-drop: use the true 30 fps frame rate instead of the 29.97 NTSC frame rate (see SMPTE Time Formats) |
Could you give me any suggestions as to how these should be set.
Should the fps setting for MIDI affect this?
Sorry about all the questions.
Thanks for the help
Martin
you say
1…I’m still unsure what the system timer is that is recommended in N Track and what might cause the Korg’s timing to drift. could it be down to a driver/install problem with the Midisport?
the system timer is the timer that controls your computer - when you slave the Korg to N - the timer in your PC now controls the timing in the Korg -
the Midisport is rock solid -
if the Korg is set to Slave and the MIDI out is taken from the Midisport it will sync to N - and you can see the timecode being transmitted -
have you got this info from Korg ?
"This download contains the latest MIDI specifications for the EMX-1 (Electribe MX). The downloaded files will be .txt files that can be opened in most word processing programs. We recommend opening the word processing program first, and then opening the files from within the program, rather than simply double-clicking on the icon"
http://www.korg.co.uk/downloa…=dj_mx1
two things -
1… the MIDI sync is part of Ns main program loop. the more you ask N to do the longer this loop becomes, with only one track playing back in N (and using the Midisport to observe sync output) the leds will light continously - when you are upto 16 tracks then they leds will flicker, there will come a time when the Korg will lose sync and reset back to start in between sync pulses instead of continuing from one time point to another - make sure that send song pointer is ticked in Ns sync panel -
2… you can sync N from the Korg but dont try that untill you get the Korg to sync from N -
Dr J
OK thanks Dr J. Some of what you say definitely rings alarm bells. When we encountered the problem we were up to a reasonable number of tracks (if they are muted is NTrack’s processing still heavier than if they weren’t there?) as we had been adding several drum tracks. But we tried to get around that by creating a new song and just importing the backing track (which didn’t fix it at the time).
Anyway I’m also pretty sure that we were not sending SPP which, if I understand you correctly, means that the Korg would not be able to resync if the track drifted.
My gut feeling is that it would be better to use the soundcard’s clock (designed for the purpose than an internal timer in the PC) unless the N manual is implying that N doesn’t work well with a card clock.
Only other question I have is does the MIDIsport offer anything over going straight through my card’s MIDI out (other than monitoring MIDI signals using the LEDs)?
yes, song pointer tells the Korg to start from this point instead of starting from zero -
the LEDS and nothing but the LEDS - you will soon realise how important they are when dealing with Ns MIDI sync and for getting MIDI cables sorted out when you progress to many MIDI units - never leave home without it (and the driver CD) -
for MIDI sync it is better to use the system timer (only on the MIDIsync panel) for MIDI sync, for one its faster for N to get the time from the PC than interegating the soundcard - and two, the difference in timimg accuracy between the PC and the soundcards timer is miniscule over a 4 minute track -
MUTE when you mute a track it is still in circuit as far as N is concerned, the only thing that does not happen is that the actual audio is not sent to the soundcard -
the equasion is, if mute flag is set (ON) then disregard data, it mute flag is not set (OFF) then send data to soundcard -
so as the muted track is still read along with all the others, you save next to nothing in CPU time by muting -
also do this, in Ns prefs set N program priority to highest (1) N will be top of the tree for PC CPU use - untick use system timer for recording and playback (runs on soundcards timer) - tick multi threading for audio and compensate for plugin latency -
in Windows control panel click on “system” then “advanced” then “performance” and set PC to background use -
Dr J
go here and download MIDI viewer - it will show if your soundcard etc is allowing midi in and out and will show the actual MIDI data that the Korg is transmitting (not MIDI sync, only MIDI notes) - dont forget to get the .dll, wont work without it -
http://www.borg.com/~jglatt/progs/software.htm
Dr J