New Song up.... Need some feedback....

attn: Yaz, TomS, Bruffie, etc…


Here is a new song I’m working on, but would like to get some feedback on.

The song is called “While There’s Still Time.”

While it is a newly recorded song, I actually wrote it back in 2002, but it just wouldn’t come together on record back then.

While There’s Still Time

Please check it out, it has a neat vibe to it that makes me a proud pappa.

Vocals will be overdubbed by Doc on Tuesday (11/06/07), but I wanted to get your thoughts on the overall body of work before he gets here.

When you open the link, click the “hi-fi” button beside the song: “While There’s Still Time” and it should begin to steam on your browser.

Thanks for listening, and for your comments in advance.

All the best,

Hi Iplan, first off, your mixing skills are improving much. Bass and drums sound good. Maybe a little more expanse panning on the guitars. Overall sounds decent. :agree:

Second thing, it’s early in the morning, I’m having my first cup of coffee and hearing you sing. Not a pleasant thing. I think this was discussed before. :disagree:

Have a great day!

Yaz :)

I know about the vocals.

I must have misheard the instructions in heaven, and skipped the line labeled “singing voice” (there was a joke about something like that when I was in elementary school, but I can’t remember it.)

Maybe everyone should hold off until Tuesday…


Like it - like seeing where a man’s heart is.

As an introduction to the forum - I offer my story.

The Man I Used to Me


Doc’s vocals are up there - replacing my efforts.

I’ve posted a new song on the website:
While There’s Still Time

The song is called, "While There’s Still Time"

I like this song now, but it didn’t start as one of my favorites… In fact, this song was written nearly 5 years ago.

This song has a really distinctive groove, but I wonder about the chorus. Specifically I wonder if there is enough “musical separatation” between the chorus (at 1:20 - 1:36, and 2:24 - 2:48), and the verses.

I was thinking of adding female backup vocals on the chorus to help create some separation.

Any feedback, positive or negative, is highly solicited, and very welcome.

All the best,

Well, I listened to the first version, so I’ll go listen to the new version and return with comments!

Edit: well, that’s pretty good, although you know I think the whole “we’re all sinners and God required a blood sacrifice” theology is barbaric and an insult to God.
The music fits the theology, however.

About the music: tell us about the guitars - what kind of guitar are you using, how is it recorded?
Frankly, they don’t sound like they are in tune, or the intonation is bad, or something.
And I’m not too much of a fan of that distortion.
That’s mostly a matter of taste, however.
Also, FWIW, here’s an idea: try a short room on them - you have “Roomverb” perhaps?
It’s free, and it might sound good on the guitars.
I like the vocals.
And the ending with just bass.
The guitar sound is the main weakness here.

Really, I think this is the best thing I have heard of yours.

Hey, Poppa W - start your stuff on another thread - there’s a lot of good stuff there to listen to, and we could all benefit from your massive experience. :)

Hey IP.

I think you have some good raw materials in this song. It sounds like you’ve captured good clean recordings for the individual tracks. In particular, I like the bass sound. It speaks well without resorting to exaggerated mids or highs.

A few niggling carps:
- the repeated snare hits in the intro and outro sound like a single sample, so you’re getting some machinegunning
- I’m hearing the same tuning issues with the guitars as Tom… they’re a little flat
- the bass is a little rushed in spots… tightening that up would help the feel a lot, I think
- the voice is very nice, but I’d dial back the reverb a little (purely my personal taste)
- I’d play that bass phrase at least twice on the intro, four times if you mix it up some

Could you give some details on your setup?



Thanks for listening, and your comments. Like you, I am in agreement that Poppa W should have a bigger presence on the board. I think a post a day from him would be sufficent. That said, what I’d really like is to have a thread titled: “Storytime: w/ woxnerw, Poppa W, and Yaz” in which they posted their stories in the industry. It’d be cool! :agree: :agree: :agree:

As to the questions:
I only used one guitar on this track (playing it for both rhythm parts, and the lead). It is a 1992 Gibson Les Paul Standard. The guitar signal is run through my pedal board (Planet Wave Tuner, Boss Compressor, Boss 7 band EQ, Danelectro Daddy O Distortion, Boss Chorus, Boss Flange, Boss Delay), then straight into the board through a DI box for consistency. I usually only have the distortion and delay selected.

I know this was a problem on one of my first efforts, but since then, I’ve made it a point to verify my tuning before every take. I think the “thing” you may be hearing is the “effected” guitar that comes in at 16 seconds. I used FreeAmp2 to work with the sound of this guitar, -specifically to make it distinctly different than the first guitar. When the guitar signals are dry, they both sound identical in tuning and tone, but there’s no separation between them, so I went for something that would sound completely different. I’m pretty positive I wouldn’t dial this tone given a choice, and after your suggetion I think I may work on it some more.

Reverb Suggestion:
I need to check out the reverb plug-in you mentioned. I’m using N-Track’s reverb on vocals. I use a BOSS Delay pedal on the guitars to create some space.

Did you have any suggestions on the chorus? Does it separate enough to your ears?

Finally, regarding The Thelogy of Blood Sacrifice (and let me say, that I’m addressing a concern you mentioned - and hope not to offend anyone - I’m just having a conversation, so all of you “thin skinned, easily offended heathens” better head for the door:
lol :laugh:

Like you, I would rather there be another way (blood sacrifices strike me as something out of a horror movie or something), but I didn’t design it, so I have to accept it or reject it as it stands.

I’m not sure I agree with your statement that “a blood sacrifice is an insult to God” - as he assuradely set it up that way. If you’ve got a Bible laying around, a good passage to read that will explain this (and there are many on the subject) that explains this option (choosing a blood sacrifice, or falling under judgement) is found in Romans 5:12- 21. Don’t take my word for it, go to the primary source.

Maybe it’s easier to think of this choice as a modern day equivelant to “capital punishment.” In our society, there are certain crimes that are punishable by death. In God’s society the same is true, and it just so happens that we’re all guilty of crimes punishable by death from God’s vantage point (thanks Adam & Eve). So in God’s eyes, a crime punishable by death has been committed, and the decision he made was to choose between punishing us all, or to offer an exchange (punish something else that we might live). It was not a choice he had to make, but choose to give us a second chance.

He thankfully choose the second option - deciding to punish his own son - allowing him to willingly pay the penalty for our crimes. Now that the penalty has been paid, the question comes down to “accepting” the pardon or not. If I, or you, or anyone accepts the blood sacrifice for our crimes (and I speak of crimes as The Bible does, envy, lust, idoltry, pride, etc.), then we’ll enter heaven as innocent and pure as the wind driven snow - despite a the rap sheet against us. If we choose to reject the sacrifice, well, in the words of Clint Eastwood, “There’ll be hell to pay.”

Another passage that will help explain this is Hebrews 11:26-31. As with all of this stuff, it’s always good to read something in its full context, so maybe reading the whole book would help paint a clearer picture. :agree:

Please accept this as a discussion of views, and my apologies if this is not the appropriate venue for this discussion (just replying to a comment).

All the best,


Thanks for responding. I’ve tried to address your comments below:


- the repeated snare hits in the intro and outro sound like a single sample, so you’re getting some machinegunning

I’m using N-track drums… how do I fix it?


- I’m hearing the same tuning issues with the guitars as Tom… they’re a little flat

^%$^#%@$^#! My ears aren’t as good as yours are. Can you tell which one is flat - so I can fix it?


- the bass is a little rushed in spots… tightening that up would help the feel a lot

It’s got issues. I’ve fixed some of them w/ volume swells, but it’s a lot of time consuming “screwdriver” work… I need to devote more time to it.


- the voice is very nice, but I’d dial back the reverb a little (purely my personal taste)

I agree with you, but Doc really likes the reverb, and I don’t want to upset him - as I can’t sing…


- I’d play that bass phrase at least twice on the intro, four times if you mix it up some

One of my buddies said the beginning sounded like something you’d hear on a “Learn To Play Bass in 20 Minutes” book, and recommended that I start the song with the bass slide at 7 seconds. I kind of like the bass intro and exits myself.

Setup is detailed in my reply to TomS, but it only mentioned the guitars. My bass, is a Fender Jazz, and I play that straight through the DI box. I add some compression, and cut all the low end at 100k. Yaz suggested that for all tracks (except the kick drum), and I’ve been doing that dilegently.


PS: Is there enough sonic separation between the chorus and the verse? Should I add female backup vocals in the chorus?

Hey Iplan.

On the machinegun snare… I don’t use n-track drums, so I don’t know how you’d avoid it there. The drum libraries I use all have many samples per drum and usually have separate left- and right-hand hits for snares. If n-track drums allows multiple samples per drum, you’d use different samples for subsequent hits. Even alternating between two is often enough. Sorry I can’t be more help here.

On the guitar… it could be tuning, it could be intonation. If you have one of them floating bridge things (I’m not a guitar player), it could be in tune while tuning but out of tune while playing. If your tuner is quick enough, leave it on while playing. When I’m recording bass, I redo the intonation for every track, optimizing for the part’s voicing and how I’m playing it.

On the rushed bass… you might experiment with sliding the track by a few milliseconds. I’ve had recordings where a vocal or guitar was just a little rushed, but consistently enough that pushing it a few milliseconds completely fixed the feel. Otherwise, it might be as simple as trying to be lazier while recording.

On the effected vocal… I was probably being too picky here. It’s wet, but it’s not like… Bollywood-wet. You should leave it as it is. Gotta keep the Talent happy. :slight_smile:

On the bass intro… “Learn To Play Bass in 20 Minutes”. That’s funny, but I disagree (no offense to Buddy). I like the intro. I just meant that I’d play the phrase twice instead of only once, then do the slide into the full arrangement.

On the chorus… Female backup vocals are always a good idea! See if you can get Yaz’s daughter to sing. :slight_smile:

Oh! One more thing I forgot: I’d bring up the tom fills more.



Iplan, definately all of the above. Intonation sounds off on your guitar. Rolling off at 100hz is just a starting point on a mix. To change the sound of 2 identical guitars can be achieved with a little more eqing differently. Not identical eqing.
The tommy gun drum can be offset with the volume hits of the midi on the ntrack drums (I know it’s in there but can’t remember how it’s done). Maybe a fade in roll.

Overall this by far your best effort to date. :agree:
Keep on plugging at it you’ll get there dude. :)

Yaz :)

Footnote, My Dad taught me never to get involved in Politics or Religious discussions. He said wars have broke out over those 2 subjects for as long as man has been on earth. He also taught me to play guitar, so I can’t argue with his wisdom! :)

Well, Yaz, I know Iplan is an excellent interlocutor, so folks with two quite different takes like the two of us won’t get into the web equivalent of fisticuffs.

I mentioned the theology b/c I have trouble separating lyrics from music.
They seem parts of a whole that needs to be considered as a whole.
As to theology, I am firmly of the Robert Funk school of thought - I’d rather listen to Jesus than Paul.
If you want a short and provocative statment of this position, Funk’s “The Coming Radical Reformation” is a fun place to start, but not to be dismissed without reading the scholarship behind it.

"9. The doctrine of the atonement—the claim that God killed his own son in order to satisfy his thirst for satisfaction—is subrational and subethical. This monstrous doctrine is the stepchild of a primitive sacrificial system in which the gods had to be appeased by offering them some special gift, such as a child or an animal."

Back the more mundane things.
The DI guitar just doesn’t work for me.
Guitars need to be put through amps, air needs to move, mics need to be placed, tubes need to glow.
Even if the recorded sound is not stellar (and it is soooo much harder to get a good sound this way, I know, since I have regularly failed), it will still be much more interesting and “listenable” than a nicely recorded DI guitar.
I know lots and lots of recordings these days used DI plus Amplitube or whatnot, but…anyway, that’s my religion about recording guitars…

Dang 50 dollar Lawyer words! So you are saying you know Iplan as having a conversation or the center man in a minstral troupe? You know with this thread either could be appropriate!

DI vs Amp guitars, now you know I love amp and mic. DI used with Freeamp or what not. I guess this is a seperate art getting the sound right, me I have had no luck with this. I have tried it and my guitar sounded like a electronic toy. Plus I just don’t get the feel when recording the DI guitar, seems like somethings missing. But to each his own on this subject.

IPlan, sorry 'bout hi-jacking your thread. My appologies. :)

No problem Yaz… hijack away…

TomS: Couple of things…

1. The versions of Roomverb I saw were $60 and up. Is it no longer free, or am I looking at the wrong plugin?



On the following: The doctrine of the atonement—the claim that God killed his own son in order to satisfy his thirst for satisfaction — is subrational and subethical.

I don’t buy the fact that God has a “thirst” for satisfaction. Rather, the Bible says that He will simply carry out justice accordingly (the same way a District Attorney goes about his job - albeit w/ a heavy heart, as “He wishes that none perish, but all have everlasting life”). Finally, even if it is the case, and you are right, I find it odd that we would be telling God what is ethical, subrational, etc…

Anyway, hope everyone has a good Thanksgiving - BTW, here’s a fun Thanksgiving factoid:

There were just 53 Pilgrims (of the original 102) at the first Thanksgiving:

Those present were:

4 MARRIED WOMEN : Eleanor Billington, Mary Brewster, Elizabeth Hopkins, Susanna White Winslow.

5 ADOLESCENT GIRLS : Mary Chilton (14), Constance Hopkins (13 or 14), Priscilla Mullins (19), Elizabeth Tilley (14 or15) and Dorothy, the Carver’s unnamed maidservant, perhaps 18 or 19.

9 ADOLESCENT BOYS : Francis & John Billington, John Cooke, John Crackston, Samuel Fuller (2d), Giles Hopkins, William Latham, Joseph Rogers, Henry Samson.

13 YOUNG CHILDREN : Bartholomew, Mary & Remember Allerton, Love & Wrestling Brewster, Humility Cooper, Samuel Eaton, Damaris & Oceanus Hopkins, Desire Minter, Richard More, Resolved & Peregrine White.

22 MEN : John Alden, Isaac Allerton, John Billington, William Bradford, William Brewster, Peter Brown, Francis Cooke, Edward Doty, Francis Eaton, [first name unknown] Ely, Samuel Fuller, Richard Gardiner, John Goodman, Stephen Hopkins, John Howland, Edward Lester, George Soule, Myles Standish, William Trevor, Richard Warren, Edward Winslow, Gilbert Winslow.

All the best,

Ah, well, I guess I expect God to live up to a rather high standard. :)

Round my house, the Lakota branh of the family visits on Thanksgiving, and we write letters to the editor protesting the holiday and arguing for Leonard Peltier’s release.

But have a good holiday anyway! ???