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| Jermy said "And those laws you say were made by man have there origin somewhere trust me." |
I don’t want to trust you!
KF
I don’t want to trust you!
KF
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| Actually Jesus was a real human being. |
And your proof?
Anyway, I thought he was some sort of a god or something?
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| And those laws you say were made by man have there origin somewhere trust me. |
Why should I trust you? You claim infallibility and all knowledge or something?
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| Ever heard of the ten commandments? |
Yup, but wasn’t they delivered by another dead Jew and not the one under discussion?
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| The point was for mike, giz if you need man to tell you what is right and wrong by making a law for you so be it. |
No, right and wrong is something else, and I don’t claim to be able to define them.
But, I’ll take better guess at what they mean rather than relying on some long dead corpses.
Anyway Jerm, it seems your god knows as little about human physiology as Jimmy Carter does.
After some research.
The optic nerves travel first to the hind brain (that’s the animal part of the brain which in a man is not much bigger than in a dog) where they stimulate a response.
The nerve signal then travels to the fore-brain (the reasoning part) which decides whether to continue with the response or suppress it.
In other words, the surge of lust a heterosexual man feels when seeing a sexually attractive woman is in-built, instinctive.
I’ve yet to find which part of the neural path the soul is in.
Perhaps you can find a quote from Moses or Jesus that can tell us?
| Quote (Guest @ Nov. 05 2006,13:24) |
| Thanks Phoo. I always did reckon that Carter was 4 aces short of a full deck. His heart was in the right place, just a shame his brain wasn't. Anyway Jeremysdemo, the laws that govern me were made by real human beings, not by a possibly mythical dead Jew with no knowledge of sex, women or family life, and who claimed to be guided by a heap big juju spirit.
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Now, Carter is one of my personal heros, so don't be pickin' on him.
Or on Jeremy, either.
I liked Carter too Tom, and I did say his heart was in the right place. But let’s be honest, he sometimes did and said some pretty dumb things.
As for Jeremy. The ways I see it, if you start preaching in public, then you better be ready for hecklers. 
I always respected Carter - seemed to me his greatest “sin” was in admitting that he was human. Apparently, Americans expect their leaders to be above all that - hasn’t worked out all that well, I’m afraid.
As to Jeremy - he is as sincere as they come; not a false note in his entire symphony. I don’t agree with much of what he believes but I truly believe that he believes it and that counts for a lot with me. Just my personal.
| Quote (BillClarke @ Nov. 05 2006,18:31) |
| I always respected Carter - seemed to me his greatest "sin" was in admitting that he was human. Apparently, Americans expect their leaders to be above all that - hasn't worked out all that well, I'm afraid. As to Jeremy - he is as sincere as they come; not a false note in his entire symphony. I don't agree with much of what he believes but I truly believe that he believes it and that counts for a lot with me. Just my personal. |
How was the economy doing when Carter was President, I forget.
Was the House Democrat or Republican? The Senate??
Wait!! It's coming back...Misery index!! Iran!! Hostages!! Gas Lines!!!
A Liberal Icon.
MHR
| Quote (jeremysdemo @ Nov. 04 2006,21:08) | ||
You’ve never lied, commited adultery? any married man who has looked at a woman with lust is guilty of adultry A leader is like any other man, yourself included. Wake up indeed. Although I totally disagree with the agendas of parties involved in fundamentalism, I will not be the one to cast the first stone here. jerm 
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I thinmk the bigger concern is guys like this have a lot of influece over the thinking and voting of many people. Many people look at guys like this and think they are truely the mouth piece of Christianity. When a guy like this pulls a do as I say and not as I do, it is troublesome. I think the real unsaid prejudice here is that many believe many of these types of preachers are simply in it for the money and when the spot light is not on them, they are in to stuff like this. Sure, don’t cast the first stone, but Jesus was no fan of the hippocrite either. It is very troubling to a person such as myself that you have a man like this erroding the rights of gays and others through his influence in the Evangelical movement and he is a hiipocrite himself. If you are to believe such things and be so out spoken and condemning of certain groups, you had better have clean hands yourself. My concern is more that he himself was casting the first stone and now that the tables are turned, there some in that same movement who comdemn others but will defnd this guy.
| Quote (Bubbagump @ Nov. 05 2006,21:50) | ||||
It is very troubling to a person such as myself that you have a man like this erroding the rights of gays and others through his influence in the Evangelical movement and he is a hiipocrite himself. If you are to believe such things and be so out spoken and condemning of certain groups, you had better have clean hands yourself. My concern is more that he himself was casting the first stone and now that the tables are turned, there some in that same movement who comdemn others but will defnd this guy. |
Actually I read somewhere he voted in favor of changing the definition of marriage to include gay couple in his district. Might of been a CNN report so consider the source.
keep shinin'
jerm
| Quote (Guest @ Nov. 05 2006,16:39) |
| Actually Jesus was a real human being. |
And your proof?
Many eye witness accounts(called gospels) along with historical writers, Josephus,Tacitus, a biography of a man named Claudius, Phlegan and a book called the Talmud to name a few.
And those laws you say were made by man have there origin somewhere trust me.
Why should I trust you? You claim infallibility and all knowledge or something?
I suppose you could do the research yourself and find out what the basis of your laws are.
Ever heard of the ten commandments?
Yup, but wasn't they delivered by another dead Jew and not the one under discussion?
I was pointing you in the right direction for reseach, you can lead a horse to water...you know the rest.
The point was for mike, giz if you need man to tell you what is right and wrong by making a law for you so be it.
No, right and wrong is something else, and I don't claim to be able to define them.
No according to your own words you rely on men to do so. The ones that make your laws anyway.
keep shinin'
jerm
Guys,
I appreciate the support but I don’t think giz is picking on me.
He’s demonstrating a genuine desire for learning, and that is admirable.
keep shinin’
jerm
Isn’t this fellow who was the subject of this thread an avid anti-gay activist or something?
I don’t know that it particularly reflects on Bush’s adminstration that he’s a closet gay. Certainly shows that he’s a hypocrite, or at least very confused.
Willy.
Here’s an excerpt from Harper’s Magazine:
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Pastor Ted, who talks to President George W. Bush or his advisers every Monday, is a handsome forty-eight-year-old Indianan, most comfortable in denim. He likes to say that his only disagreement with the President is automotive; Bush drives a Ford pickup, whereas Pastor Ted loves his Chevy. In addition to New Life, Pastor Ted presides over the National Association of Evangelicals (NAE), whose 45,000 churches and 30 million believers make up the nation’s most powerful religious lobbying group, and also over a smaller network of his own creation, the Association of Life-Giving Churches, 300 or so congregations modeled on New Life’s “free market” approach to the divine. |
The Entire Article
KF
| Quote (Midget Hot Rink @ Nov. 05 2006,22:19) |
| How was the economy doing when Carter was President, I forget. Was the House Democrat or Republican? The Senate?? Wait!! It's coming back...Misery index!! Iran!! Hostages!! Gas Lines!!! A Liberal Icon. MHR |
You miss my point - I respect the man as an apparently honest and caring person. History has/will decide lesser matters such as whether he was a good president.
| Quote (KingFish @ Nov. 06 2006,02:08) |
| Here's an excerpt from Harper's Magazine: Pastor Ted, who talks to President George W. Bush or his advisers every Monday, is a handsome forty-eight-year-old Indianan, most comfortable in denim. He likes to say that his only disagreement with the President is automotive; Bush drives a Ford pickup, whereas Pastor Ted loves his Chevy. In addition to New Life, Pastor Ted presides over the National Association of Evangelicals (NAE), whose 45,000 churches and 30 million believers make up the nation's most powerful religious lobbying group, and also over a smaller network of his own creation, the Association of Life-Giving Churches, 300 or so congregations modeled on New Life's “free market” approach to the divine. |
The Entire Article
KF
Wow, I had no idea. Good link.
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| As to Jeremy - he is as sincere as they come; not a false note in his entire symphony. I don’t agree with much of what he believes but I truly believe that he believes it and that counts for a lot with me. Just my personal. |
I agree Bill. There is something admirable about the real believer. But let’s not go too far down that path otherwise we’ll be building memorials and statues to the faithful who flew those airplanes on 9/11.
You are correct Jeremy, I am not attacking you, but I am attacking your position that the bible should be the touchstone by which we govern our lives. And I am attacking your belief that faith is the final arbitor of truth.
There is some evidence that Jesus existed as a man, but no credible evidence that he existed as a man with a divine connection. The gospels were almost certainly written by people who had never even met Jesus, and as such can best be described as hearsay. And even then, John contradicts the others in many important details. I think any competent judge would reject the Gospels as evidence.
But this whole area has been covered before so there’s no point in going over it again. And your bottom line Jeremy is that faith is the final validator of truth. But I cannot accept that position.
And I am not seeking enlightenment from you. So please don’t send me any more PM’s preaching at me. I never invited them nor do I welcome them. I had made my own judgments concerning religion long before you were born. And although I remain open minded, brainwashing myself and indulging in self-delusion is not an option.
But back to Carter. I think as a man, history will remember him well, and at a different period in time he might have been a great president, but it seems to me that he was the wrong man for the job at the time. But I still think he deserved a second term.
Reagan too I think was a man who had his heart in the right place. I violently disagreed with his politics, but like Carter I think he meant well.
Sadly that’s not true about the last two presidents. Clinton was a crook and a liar, and dubya is either an evil man or the tool of evil men, I can’t decide which. Perhaps the time for good men as leaders of our country has gone forever.
Giz
PS.
I’ve decided I really like IE7, it’s so much more friendly.
| Quote (gizmo @ Nov. 06 2006,13:53) |
| And I am not seeking enlightenment from you. So please don’t send me any more PM’s preaching at me. I never invited them nor do I welcome them. I had made my own judgments concerning religion long before you were born. And although I remain open minded, brainwashing myself and indulging in self-delusion is not an option. |
PM’s ?
You got me stumped on that one.My memory 'taint what it used to be so perhaps you could give me a year or general date that would help me recall that event.
If I ever did PM you it was to simply tell you you are a child of God and He loves you.
If that is preaching than slap my arse and call me Jimmy Swaggart! “I have sinned in the eyes of a gremlin!”
That message certainly doesn’t fit my definition of preaching but then again I don’t get out much with the rheumatism and all.
In any event, it would have been more honorable to tell me that then, rather than bring it up now in public.
The old gray mearh taint what she used to be,
taint what she used to be,
taint what she used to be…
| Quote (Bill @ Nov. 6,2006) |
| I don’t agree with much of what he believes but I truly believe that he believes it and that counts for a lot with me. |
Bill if you would care to elaborate I would appreciate it.
I don’t know how anyone can disagree with what I believe since it is a constantly changing variable. Perhaps based on previous conversations?
I do believe there is a God AKA the Creator.
And that some thousands of years ago there was a few prophesies made by men of that faith that the Lord would send His people a messiah.
The definition of that messiah never has been completely agreed upon by any group.
So far, as much as I have searched historical records and legends, a man named Jesus has come closet to that definition.
His words seem to carry wisdom, and he does seem to be quoted an awful lot, even in secular circles.
Another man named Paul who’s saying were not as wise but thoughtful, proclaimed one must confess with your lips that Jesus is the Messiah, which I did. I have nothing to loose and according to this story eternity to gain, so I took that plunge.
Beyond that I’m pretty open to anything that crosses my path to be heard and weighed with a measure of sceptisism only an aging cornerman like myself would have.
Could you put your response in the Yikes thread as it seem to pertain more to that subject than this one?
| Quote (gizmo @ Nov. 6, 2006 13:53) |
| I had made my own judgments concerning religion long before you were born |
Might be time to reevaluate that judgement, alot has changed since the early 70’s.
Not just in religion but historical documents and the like.
I do admire your open mindedness though having made that desision so long ago and keeping it; definity demonstrating an ability to grow and change with the times.
You are a rare breed, most people who claim open mindedness never follow through with it for the lenth of time you have.
keep shinin’
jerm
Ooo, the Yikes thread. I think it is a time for a bump of that feller.
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| a bump of that feller. |
That’s what got Pastor Haggard in trouble isn’t it?
Seriously… the guy did the right thing and stepped down. He acknowledged his “transgression” and is facing the consquences. Nuff said.
D