Polls have Bush in lead across the board.

Quote (Bubbagump @ Sep. 17 2004,11:36)
So you have outlined the probelm, what's the solution? In a society with huge conglomerates owning the media, a public who eats it up, how do you change the culture with out going all fascist? Someone's freedoms will have to be stepped on.. either the media conglomerates, the people, someone. I always make a point that when I am bitching about something to think about the solution. Complaining with no effort towards a fix is worthless. As my pappy used to tell me, you are either part of the problem or part of the solution. Where does one start? It seems like a catch 22 to me. You can't reform government with out electing good people. You can't elect good people because of the way government works. ???

I have no idea what the solution is. As is said in government circles - "that's above my pay grade". However, people's freedoms are already being stepped on. Searches at the airport, ####, getting patted down or wanded before you can enter a concert venue or sporting event. I went to a show at the House of Blues in Myrtle Beach and had to empty my pockets, take my hat off, step through the metal detector AND get security wanded before they'd let me in. (And, they did this to EVERYBODY). They also confiscated my miniature Swiss Army pocket knife with the 1 inch blade 'cause I guess they thought I'd stab somebody with it 120 times. Video cameras everywhere watching everything you do up to and including picking your wedgie out of your butt. The ability to track what people view on the internet. The so-called "marketing tools" that track things you buy so they can sell your name to other companies to send you yet more crap in your mailbox.

It *is* a Catch-22 - you can't fix it without electing good people and you can't elect good people because of the way the system is. Most of the "good people" that I know 1) don't have near enough money to engage in any kind of campaign and 2) wouldn't run anyway....because of the bureaucratic system. ####, you can't even TELL who the good people are anymore. And I'm not really complaining, just stating my view on the way things are.

We the People are still the authority for the government, though any effort to change it might just prove otherwise.

I DO have a solution - always have. That solution is to not continue to vote for the “lesser of two evils.” There are alternatives.

The first step, though, is to get enough people to recognize that the situation is not acceptable or beneficial to ANYBODY except those who are growing fast and wealthy off of the spoils of the current corrupt system. Reality isn’t easy to swallow - as our relatively simple conversations right here proves. Convincing an entire population that they have been had for generations is no small task. Where does it start? Right here.

The lesser of two evils is still evil. Is it any surprise that we have what we have?

Quote (pete @ Sep. 17 2004,12:20)
I DO have a solution - always have. That solution is to not continue to vote for the "lesser of two evils." There are alternatives.



Is your intention then, for a 3rd, 4th party(s) .....

And lack of mandate ?

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Yes, third and fouth parties. They are still legal. If enough people back a libertarian or a greenie, they DO get elected. We’ve seen it a couple times now at lower levels and in state gumments.

The opposition they face is monumental, of course. The “major” parties are so entrenched and suck so much cash out of the government to make sure it stays that way that nothing less than an overwhelming majority will make the difference… BUT

We are facing an opportunity right NOW with the Democratic party. If this election goes the way it is looking, the party is going to have to take a good, hard look at where it is and what it is doing. There is a reason that the Republicans overwhelmingly dominate government today. The Democratic party will change or die.

So why not change? Why can’t the Democratic party become the party of reform? Dean ran his own campaign refusing the Machine’s cash, didn’t he? There are Democrats out there who understand full well their origins and the meaning of Jeffersonian Liberalism. Tom is one of them! (Mike isn’t.)

Wouldn’t it be awesome if the Democratic Party became the party of the Jeffersonian Liberals? I know a LOT of “Republicans” who would be RIGHT there. I’d be there too. So would a lot of Libertarians who continue to see their party flounder.

What if real liberals took over the left?

Quote (pete @ Sep. 17 2004,12:40)
What if real liberals took over the left?


They would in turn become corrupt ....



I noticed you favor WC ...

It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried.


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We are facing an opportunity right NOW with the Democratic party. If this election goes the way it is looking, the party is going to have to take a good, hard look at where it is and what it is doing. There is a reason that the Republicans overwhelmingly dominate government today. The Democratic party will change or die
I agree about the lesser of 2 evils is evil but seriously how do you think the Democratic Party could change in a way that you would accept? Who in the party could run for Pres that you would approve of?

Lord of the Flies?

Animal House?

Quote (Burning-SG @ Sep. 17 2004,13:57)
Quote (pete @ Sep. 17 2004,12:40)
What if real liberals took over the left?


They would in turn become corrupt ....

......Why?
Quote (Former Member Gone @ Sep. 17 2004,14:25)

......Why?

Is it not the nature of the beast .... ?

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There’s still some hope for Kerry! The Gallop poll which has Bush ahead today, got it wrong in 2000 - it said Bush was going to win the popular vote.

Wooo’hahhh - glad I heard this on a Friday - gives me weekend alittle boost!