Once I’ve recorded all four parts of a vocal arrangement, I try to go back and fix a bad note in one part by using punch-in recording. Although I know I am singing the new note(s) in perfect sync with the other 3 parts, when I play the song back the newly recorded punch-in area lags behind the other parts by 1/2 second or more. Any ideas on how to get these to keep lining up?
I have tried several suggestions from the forum on just recording other tracks for the new notes, and using cross fade. It is difficult to get in sync with the other parts unless I use punch-in when I can hear the leadin. Also, crossfade keeps complaining that there is no overlap. When I drag the handles a bit to left and right, I overlap parts that aren’t recorded. And how do you tell crossfade to use tracks 3 and 5 for example (where 3 might be the original and 5 contains 1 second of new recording)…
Sorry to be so dense…
Ted
i get the same problem and I wish I knew how to fix it but i don’t 
What drivers are you using? (also what soundcard and system)
I had lag problems with win98 and MME drivers using an SB Live
Once I upgraded to winXP and used WDM it was sweet.
A big "lag probelm I had with win98 and MME with the SB Live was that when I pressed record it would take a split second to actually start moving the timeline and if you played right from the start it wouldn’t record the first few bits
I’d record to spearate tracks instead of punching in.
As for hearing the bit before, just silence (non-destructively) the part you are overdubbing so you hear everything up to that point
HTH
Rich
| Quote (RichLum @ Oct. 09 2004,18:36) |
| What drivers are you using? (also what soundcard and system) I had lag problems with win98 and MME drivers using an SB Live Once I upgraded to winXP and used WDM it was sweet. A big "lag probelm I had with win98 and MME with the SB Live was that when I pressed record it would take a split second to actually start moving the timeline and if you played right from the start it wouldn't record the first few bits I'd record to spearate tracks instead of punching in. As for hearing the bit before, just silence (non-destructively) the part you are overdubbing so you hear everything up to that point HTH Rich |
Running XP, with a fast processor. However the sound card is an old SB Live, which is due for an upgrade anyway, so that's probably what I'll try next, thanks for that suggestion.
Any recommendations for a good, basic sound card? 16 bits should be fine, and no need for 5.1 surround or any of that (althought I'm sure it might be hard to find something without all those bells and whistles today).
Will one sound card let you record multiple tracks simultaneously? For example, four vocals (assuming you had the mics and the preamps). I've looked at the Delta 66 from M-Audio a bit, but it's expensive and you need pre-amps in addition.
Thanks,
Ted
Simultaneous recording will start to cost a lot of money. If you get one w/built in pres, it will cost even more. If you aren’t ready to put $500 or more, don’t worry about simultaneous recording. Of course, all soundcards will give you stereo sound, and there is 2 channels right there. You will need to get the right hardware to split the stereo channels and you will need 2 pres, but it is still possible. Remember most all mics are mono, so you aren’t losing any part of the sound by using stereo as 2 mono inputs. As far as soundcards, what type do you have? Most SoundBlasters are pretty good. You can get a 16 bit SB for about $50, but I would just put up the extra cash for an audigy. You can get an audigy starting at about $80 or $90 and it will be 24 bit. Of course, with all SB’s you want to remember to record at a 48K sampling rate. Otherwise you will get lag.
fish
First, a small success. I was indeed recording at 44.1K with my SB LIve card. Following your suggestion I changed that to 48K and it appears that the lag problem is gone! What an incredible resource this forum is, thanks!
For multi-track recording, it looks like the M-Audio Delta 44 is available for $149 (musiciansfriend.com), along with a 4-channel preamp from SM Pro Audio for $79. I already have access to the mics and cables so price-wise it’s not looking too bad. With that combination of equipment is 4-channel recording feasible? PC is recent, AMD 2700, UDMA disks, plenty of RAM.
Ted
I have quite the same problem. I’m able to have very low latency in the beginning of the song. At the end of the three minute song it’s more like a slap back echo, delay of about half a second.
If your punch in parts are somewhere in the middle of the song, they will be delayed if our problems are similiar.
After looking thru the manual it seems the problem is in the soundcard (now I’m using my laptops crappy inbuild one, next week not anymore):
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| If the lag value grows constantly during the recording the problem is most likely caused by the soundcard sampling frequency not being perfectly constant or by a difference in the soundcard’s recording and playback sampling frequencies. When this occurs the problem can’t be fixed using the compensation parameter and the program may not work properly so it may be necessary to change soundcard. |
What I just did with a few backing vox overdubs: I recorded them in their own tracks and then dragged them to their places… #### sure I won’t try to duplicate Bohemian Rhapsody this way…
Dear Ted and others,
I have a problem with punch-in recording too, and I’m using WIN XP pro, and Echo Layla soundcard, n-track 4.
Trying to record a harmony voice starting on a new track at the point on the timeline where the harmony first is needed.
When I stop the recording, and the wav file is drawn on the timeline, the harmony ends up at a point out of sync, like the end of the song.
I’ve tried many things with the punch-in parameters, and highlighted the timeline where I want to punch-in, but it seems as if something is overriding what I want to do as punch-in location and length of time have different values when I reexamine them.
I could just record a track for the entire length of the song, but why not punch-in only where needed?
Any thoughts would be appreciated.
I was having some similar problem, but found that by closing and reopening the program the first recording was always right on, subsequent ones were not.
I know it’s a hassle quitting and opening each time you record, but it may fix it.
I no longer have this issue, and I’m not sure how I got rid of it.
Couple of comments:
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| Quote |
| Simultaneous recording will start to cost a lot of money. If you get one w/built in pres, it will cost even more. If you aren’t ready to put $500 or more, don’t worry about simultaneous recording |
Not entirely true… I use a SB Audigy ZS platinum pro which has 6 channels of simultaneous inputs (3 x stereo) at up to 24bit. Its about £150 here in the UK, prob near $250?
Also, re punch in - do you have any plug-ins running on the track you are playing whilst waiting to punch in? n automatically compensates for plug-in latency, but I am not convinced that this always lines up. Try disabling plugins?
Maaszy
hey jemarcec
have you checked the punch in settings?
right next to the punch in icons is a "lock punch-in/out times to region selection"
make sure you click on it everytime you adjust the punch in/out points.
the icon is in the upper right corner right next to the place you can type in numbers for the punch in.
I don’t know why anyone uses punch in on a DAW.
On a tape machine sure - you have a limited number of tracks.
On a DAW it is much easier and powerful to mute the part you want to redo and then record to a new track.
You can then record as many takes as you want to individual tracks and then go back and listen to them and keep the one you want or even comp something together from a number of different takes.
Using punchin is soooo restrictive in comparison.
You can always unmute the original section if you change your mind and you have a lot more options using separate tracks.
Once you have everything sounding the way you want you can always mixdown to a single track if you want to conserve screen space or something…
just my 2c
Rich
Dear maaszy,
Disabling the plug-ins seems to do the trick. I had reverb and compression on a couple of tracks, but with all off the punch-in harmony ended up where it was supposed to go. Thanks for the hint!
OK…not using punch-ins but…will record new wave from begining of song…n crashes on me and closes…no problem…re start song and open the wave that I just recorded into the song…it’s always out of sync…not running any plug ins while recording only run them in mixdown. Am using 98se and Gina by echo with mme drivers and using the Gina’s sync and time clock. I am recording and monitoring thru Behringer Eurodesk MX3282a. If n doesn’t crash the waves are in time and sync. Is this a loop delay? Any thoughts?
Try not to use MME drivers. If you have ASIO or WDM use them.
MME will be the worst performer out of all 3.
The fact that N crashes points to some other problem. Maybe a resource or driver issue.
Make sure you have disabled any unnecessary processes/apps in win98
HTH
Rich
ASIO causes the program to run out of resourses with just 8 audio tracks. Didn’t have problem with 3.3 version. Have recorded and mixed with multiple plug-ins up to 18 tracks before upgrading to 4.0.1 Have checked all proggy’s running and only min are up. Have a system resource of 98 percent free when starting n. Echo has discontinued the Gina card of course so last driver updates where 2 years ago. Guess I’m stuck with what I got since I’m unemployed and wife said no hardware updates!