Republicans up to their old tricks

Seems to me, Mike, that the burden is on those who believe that there were problems in Ohio or Florida or wherever to show that there were. But there is in fact strong evidence of fraud in Ohio. No mainstream media is reportin git, for the most part (although the Cap Times in madison has! :) ) Have you been following the Ohio situation?

My biggest concern is not the recounting or what not, but when are the candidates gonna get those stupid campaign signs of the tele phone poles and the side of the road. Isn’t this littering? I say we fine all of the candidates $50,000 apiece and send the money to the victims of Tsunami!

Can I get an AMEN!

Yaz, make it $500,000 each, I’ll AMEN that!

TG

Phoo - you could my buttons pushed indeed.

Tom - I’ve have been following Ohio carefully, other than what’s reported by Franken, but it has been recounted by hand & Bush won by ~90,000 votes. The only problem I’ve heard about is the long lines in heavily Democratic areas due to lack of voting machines. That seems alittle suspicious to me. Having said all that, I think Bush clearly won in 2004, so I really don’t have a problem with the election, other than I believe that the EC should be ditched.

Now as for FL in 2000, this was all documented & the Supreme Court laid down their bogus decision. I believe FL state law allowed for a hand recount but that didn’t happen, now did it? That’s all I need to say about that.

the Supreme Court laid down their bogus decision
That's the rub isn't it? You don't like the system so you go looking for folks to blame that are only implementing the system as it stands. In reality, the US court said it was Florida problem and the Florida decision stood. Federal law say the elections are handled by the states and only the states. Florida may be corrupt as the Coleone family, but it's people have a right to handle these problems any way they way, and if Jeb and Katherine are in power down ther because they were elected by the people of Florida then the rest of the country needs to accept Florida for what it is, just as most of the country accepts California for what it is...and Texas and Alaska and Idaho...This isn't a political or lifestyle tolerance issue it's a states rights issue.

WA Followup: Seems like there is evidence that as many as 8000 more votes total were counted in three of WA's laregest counties than there are registered voters. This is why the GOP was complaining in the first place about the "newly found votes". If that number turns out to be accurate then the WA Gov's election could be found to be invalid and a revote could take place, or the next governor could be picked by the legislature. Only a handfull of folks are screaming fraud, but fraud or not that's good enough evidence to get the court involved again.

Like I said don't go looking for GOP bashing fodder. If this goes to court you'll see just as much push back from the democrats as you did and are from the republicans.

PUSH --> BUTTON

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That’s the rub isn’t it? You don’t like the system so you go looking for folks to blame that are only implementing the system as it stands. In reality, the US court said it was Florida problem and the Florida decision stood. Federal law say the elections are handled by the states and only the states…This isn’t a political or lifestyle tolerance issue it’s a states rights issue.

Hey thanks for making my point for me! The FL Supreme Court said re-count the votes by hand & that should have stood. The Supreme Court had no business in this case for all the reasons you state. Thanks for agreeing with me phoo!

Thanks for the WA update. If there are real problems with the election, then they should be raised, but that’s a totally separate issue from the original post & link I cited. The Republicans didn’t want valid votes counted because of your state law you have that says votes can’t be added to a re-count. Well, the judge decided that the votes should be counted. Why didn’t the Republicans raise these issues earlier on, or did they? Didn’t seem to be a problem when they were winning now did it?

Probably your over-votes are due to Diebold machines :laugh
The Republicans didn't want valid votes counted
No. They didn't want invalid votes counted and now ther is the possibility they were right.
Why didn't the Republicans raise these issues earlier on, or did they?
Seems like you aleady said they did. Look at your title.
Republicans up to their old tricks, Not counting votes...
Can't have it both way, Mike. When they raise a question you complain. Now you seem to be complaining that they should have done it earlier when, as you have already pointed out, they DID. And NOW it seems like they might have been right in the first place.

The law says that new votes can't be included. The votes in question were not new votes, but were in fact old absentee ballots. That's why the judge allowed them to be reexamined to see if they should be included. They were reexamined by bi-partisan teams that consisted of an election board worked and an observer from each party. The hand recount was handled the same way. NOW there seems to be 8000 more votes tallied than there are registered voters. Are you still sticking to the story that this is dirty republican tricks?

I bet you are. You can't see it any other way.

PUSH -> BUTTON
Probably your over-votes are due to Diebold machines :laugh:
No way. It's a liberal plot to steal the election from the guy I voted for. I can't see it any other way.
Quote (Mr Soul @ Jan. 04 2005,10:46)
Phoo - you could my buttons pushed indeed.

Tom - I've have been following Ohio carefully, other than what's reported by Franken, but it has been recounted by hand & Bush won by ~90,000 votes. The only problem I've heard about is the long lines in heavily Democratic areas due to lack of voting machines. That seems alittle suspicious to me. Having said all that, I think Bush clearly won in 2004, so I really don't have a problem with the election, other than I believe that the EC should be ditched.

Now as for FL in 2000, this was all documented & the Supreme Court laid down their bogus decision. I believe FL state law allowed for a hand recount but that didn't happen, now did it? That's all I need to say about that.

I don't think you have been following it, then, Mike. Lemme get you a couple of links... back in a moment...

Here (be sure to read conyer’s letter and such):

http://www.ilcaonline.org/modules…id=1397

http://democracyweek.org/index.html



:D

The only thing I stand by was my original comment:

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Justices questioned Republican claims that counting the votes would cause irreparable harm.

“You’re looking at it from the point of view of the winner or the
loser - shouldn’t we be looking at it from the point of view of the voter?” asked Justice Susan Owens.

I guess the judge saw it differently than you Phoo because she allowed the votes to be counted.

Once again, the Republicans tried to not have the votes counted, using legal means, just like they did in FL. And the Democrat’s wanted them counted. That’s my point & my only point.

I don’t know anything about the other things you talk about, so I can’t comment on them. I’m not trying to have anything both ways so please don’t give me that crap.

Your guy lost - get it over it!
I guess the judge saw it differently than you Phoo because she allowed the votes to be counted.
Where did I say I didn't think the votes should be counted? Where did I even voice my own feelings about the validity of the votes?

As usual, you continue to read incorrectly between the lines.

Once again, the Republicans tried to not have the votes counted, using legal means, just like they did in FL. And the Democrat's wanted them counted. That's my point & my only point.
Let me read between the lines....this is a BAD thing?

Your guy lost - get it over it!
What a minute...you started this thread accusing the Republicans of dirty tricks. I am over it, not that there was anything to get over in the first place. Didn't I start of commenting about how things were going just fine and that was little to your allegations?

I'd say you've gone out of your way to show that you have problem with the way things are going, and you've brought up Gore and Bush in Florida yet again. Exactly what makes you think I'm quaking in my socks that a democrat might become governor? Seems like the only getting over needs to be done down in California.

You must think I'm some kind of conservative.

PUSH -> BUTTON
You must think I'm some kind of conservative.
Nah - I'm just trying to push your button (and it's been pretty hard to do!). :laugh:

Let me read between the lines....this is a BAD thing?

You brought up the state's rights issue didn't you?

Saw this on the web - Screwed up votes.

This should help ease the pain for a lot of us (it’s a bit dated but still good listening – just found a copy – I thought it was gone): http://odd.phootoons.com/takin_my_country_back.mp3

Here’s the story: http://www.buzzflash.com/alerts/04/10/ale04066.html (the original site seems to be gone)


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TAKIN’ MY COUNTRY BACK

COUNTRY MUSIC’S GOT MAMAS AND DADDYS
WE GOT BAR ROOMS AND OLD HEARTBREAK SONGS
BUT I ‘M HERE TODAY TO STAND UP AND SAY
HOW I FEEL ABOUT MY HOME SWEET HOME
WHAT’S LEFT, WHAT’S RIGHT AND WHAT’S WRONG… AND

I’M TAKIN’ MY COUNTRY BACK
SON, YOU AIN’T BEEN DOIN’ HER RIGHT
OH I BEEN WATCHIN’ YOU AND I DON’T LIKE
HOW YOU’VE BEEN TREATIN’ MY STARS AND STRIPES
YOU TOOK OUR JOBS AND SENT ‘EM OVERSEAS
NOW WE OWE BILLIONS TO THE RED CHINESE
YOU BLEW THE BUDGET AND YOU BOTCHED IRAQ
SO I’M TAKIN’ MY COUNTRY BACK

WE HAD A BUNDLE IN THE TREASURY DRAWER
MORE THAN THERE HAD EVER BEEN BEFORE
BUT EVERY DAY WE’RE DROWNIN’ DEEPER IN DEBT
MAYBE FOUR YEARS SHOULD BE ALL YOU GET
THEN YOU GAVE TAX BREAKS TO THE MILLIONAIRES
AND TRIED TO MAKE THE WORKIN’ MAN PAY
BUT YOU CAN’T TAX A MAN WHEN HIS JOBS NOT THERE
NOW LOOK AT WHERE WE ARE TODAY…HEY

I’M TAKIN’ MY COUNTRY BACK
SON, YOU AIN’T BEEN DOIN’ HER RIGHT
OH I BEEN WATCHIN’ YOU AND I DON’T LIKE
HOW YOU’VE BEEN TREATIN’ MY STARS AND STRIPES
YOU GOT TOO MANY FANCY FRIENDS FOR ME
THE SAUDIS TREAT YOU LIKE YOU’RE ROYALTY
YOU BLEW THE BUDGET AND YOU BOTCHED IRAQ
NOW I’M TAKIN’ MY COUNTRY BACK

NOW I CAN UNDERSTAND WHY YOU WERE HOT
’CAUSE BIN LADEN NEVER DID GET CAUGHT
SO YOU SAID WE HAD SADDAM TO BLAME
TRIED TO TELL US IT WAS ALL THE SAME
BUT NOW THE YEARS ROLL BY AND OUR KIDS KEEP DYIN’
YOU DON’T EVEN HAVE A PLAN TO BRING ‘EM HOME
AND THOSE W.M.D. YOU PROMISED ON T.V.
HEY ADMIT IT, YOU FIGURED IT WRONG… SO I’M TAKIN’ MY COUNTRY BACK

NOW YOU DON’T KNOW MY NAME, BUT YOU KNOW WHO I AM
I’M YOUR EVERYDAY WORK HARD, PLAY HARD
RAISE KIDS AND PRAY HARD COMMON MAN…
AND LORD KNOWS I LOVE THIS LAND…THAT’S WHY

I’M TAKIN’ MY COUNTRY BACK
SON, YOU AIN’T BEEN DOIN’ HER RIGHT
OH I BEEN WATCHIN’ YOU AND I DON’T LIKE
HOW YOU’VE BEEN TREATIN’ MY STARS AND STRIPES
YOU SAY “UNITE” BUT YOU DIVIDE US MORE
CUSSIN’ EACH OTHER ON THE SENATE FLOOR
AIN’T WE SUPPOSED TO BE ABOVE ALL THAT ?
HEY I’M TAKIN’ MY COUNTRY BACK
I GOT MY FAMILY AND MY CHURCH AND FLAG…
NOW I’M TAKIN’ MY COUNTRY BACK

That song just about sums it up for me & for the working class man. The irony is why do people who like country music so much, support Bush so much. Why has the South turned so red? It’s really too bad. It will swing back again but by then, it may be too late.

Another WA update -
GOP may object to ratification of governor vote.

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House Minority Leader Bruce Chandler, R-Granger, said yesterday that unless questions are answered about the election process – specifically about how several counties counted thousands more votes than there were voters recorded – Republicans plan to object.

Chandler said House Republicans plan to “work with whoever wins the race,” but he added that with all the unanswered questions, “we don’t know who won the election, and we never will.”

Man - this guy knows how I feel everything I think about the 2000 Presidential election?!?! :p

Mr Soul
Quote (Mr Soul @ Jan. 05 2005,15:03)
The irony is why do people who like country music so much, support Bush so much. Why has the South turned so red? It's really too bad. It will swing back again but by then, it may be too late.

Mike-you are an intelligent guy, but this elitist, liberal, yuppie bullcrap just makes you look foolish. The country is divided on urban and rural lines. as soon as the Demos see that and try to adjust, they will regain votes.IMHO

I too live in WA State, I voted for Rossi and i am frustrated by the whole thing.
originally the Repubs were upset that "new votes" were included in a "recount" After a 2nd machine count made Rossi the victor, more than 700 ballots were found. during this time,Democratic electoal officials were canvassing those who cast these disputed ballots to see if it was worth their time to fight to have them cast. then they called for a hand recount. These votes, many of them, not all, were not counted because of voting errors, failing to follow directions etc...but the court said count them anyway.
A recount is to make sure that the votes that were cast, were counted correctly, not to add recently"found" votes into the mix.
The current issue is totally different, 8000 more votes than registered voters in specifically democratic counties (read;seattle). Its not a "should we count every vote" issue anymore. Apples and oranges.

Okay, I don’t care much about this thread, but Pastor Brian, you crack me up…

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Mike-you are an intelligent guy, but this elitist, liberal, yuppie bullcrap just makes you look foolish. The country is divided on urban and rural lines. as soon as the Demos see that and try to adjust, they will regain votes.IMHO


Wasn’t it Toker that posted the map by county the showed this to be true? Hee hee… I kinda remember a huge thread that I participated in where I therorized that population density was a contributor to how people voted and thought in this election. Um, yeah, it’s definately city mouse versus country mouse. Take a look at the south by county. Its the same there as in the north (except Texas), most places where you find a bigger city you find blue.
Quote (pastorbrian @ Jan. 05 2005,15:58)
Mike-you are an intelligent guy

Well, his opinion : wit factor is a sad sight and I'm glad he's not a compressor preset. Most times when he paints himself into a corner he cracks some lame joke and leaves to start another thread about somthing else.

< SLAP >

Did you listen to the song & read the lyrics? The singer is telling a real story, a story I believe to be accurate.

My views here are not elitist, liberal, yuppie or whatever - those are just terms & labels that you’ve picked up from the right-wing radio.

The Democrats see how things are divided but that’s not the issue here. The issue is the irony of rural people supporting Republicans, because Republicans traditionally have not helped rural/working-class people like the Democrats have. And the the Republicans won’t really help you in the future like you’ve been sold to think they will. The irony is that you all think that we are the enemy, which is totally false. Right-wing media has made all you folks feel like victims & hate liberals, and it’s false.

I can understand your frustration but the Democrat’s just want votes counted. As I understand it, the Republicans didn’t want the hand re-count, and they fought to have the “new votes” not counted. It’s very simple - just count the votes. IMO - it was correct to “add” the votes in King Co. that weren’t counted in the first place, and it was correct to have a manual re-count. Don’t you agree with this?

Mr Soul

Stick around while the clown who is sick does the trick of disaster :(