The Democrats see how things are divided but that's not the issue here. The issue is the irony of rural people supporting Republicans, because Republicans traditionally have not helped rural/working-class people like the Democrats have. And the the Republicans won't really help you in the future like you've been sold to think they will. The irony is that you all think that we are the enemy, which is totally false.
This is hilarious. If rural people really thought like you perceive they do, then why did they vote for Bush in overwhelming numbers? The truth is, Democrats see the rural voter as uninformed, and voting by moral issue alone. You, and they, see rural, conservative voters as sheep, following party lines.
herein lies the rub...The working class voter is informed. they care enough to vote and they care enough to look past the rhetoric of party lines and vote for specific things. Only the dems have made it an us and them paradigm. to be specific, the current tax cuts(2002 and 2003) specifically helped middle class people. i don't need an econmist lecture about how long term its bad to do this, but average jane and Joe like less taxes.
urban, liberal, and elitist aren't just labels...they are worn by some as badges of pride and prejudice against those of us in less poulated areas. When the dems move toward these...they will regain a base.
If rural people really thought like you perceive they do, then why did they vote for Bush in overwhelming numbers? The truth is, Democrats see the rural voter as uninformed, and voting by moral issue alone. You, and they, see rural, conservative voters as sheep, following party lines. I don't think that's really true, do you really? I think that the average conservative southerner does follow party lines like sheep but not in the rest of the US.
herein lies the rub...The working class voter is informed. they care enough to vote and they care enough to look past the rhetoric of party lines and vote for specific things. Only the dems have made it an us and them paradigm. to be specific, the current tax cuts(2002 and 2003) specifically helped middle class people. i don't need an econmist lecture about how long term its bad to do this, but average jane and Joe like less taxes. I disagree here. Most people, working-class people, thought that Saddam/Iraq had something to do with 9/11 but that wasn't true. Most working class people didn't have the time to really study what Bush was telling them about Iraq & the war, read the 9/11 commission report, read Richard Clarke's book, etc. They get their newss by listening to FOX news & right-wing radio.
I'm in the middle class & I got very little from the Bush tax cut, unless you think $600 - $800 is alot. The biggest thing that's helped me is the low interest rates. Those were largely due to Clinton economic policies, weren't they?
No - Mr. Brian you feel the way you feel because you've bought into the propaganda that you are a victim, a victim of liberalism. Problem is that couldn't be furthest from the truth.
I can understand your frustration but the Democrat's just want votes counted. As I understand it, the Republicans didn't want the hand re-count, and they fought to have the "new votes" not counted. It's very simple - just count the votes. IMO - it was correct to "add" the votes in King Co. that weren't counted in the first place, and it was correct to have a manual re-count. Don't you agree with this?
Would either party want a vote recount if they were in front? #### NO!!
‘herein lies the rub…The working class voter is informed.’ ‘the current tax cuts(2002 and 2003) specifically helped middle class people.’ 'average jane and Joe like less taxes.'
This doesn’t amount to being informed. Digesting the sound-bite that says “I’ll lower your taxes, period.” and voting for that guy based on that soundbite does not mean you made an informed decision. To be informed would mean you’d also received and processed info about the long-term implications of the current GOP ‘spend but dont tax’ policy. It’s not just rural America that’s been distracted from thinking about this, it’s nationwide. It’s not only a matter of being un-informed, it’s also dis-informed.
To be informed would mean you'd also received and processed info about the long-term implications of the current GOP 'spend but dont tax' policy. It's not just rural America that's been distracted from thinking about this, it's nationwide. It's not only a matter of being un-informed, it's also dis-informed.
why is it that you think If a person agrees with a conservative economic policy, they are dis-informed? I have looked at this and don’t think its wrong to cut taxes as Bush did.
No soundbites being digested, no drinking the GOP kool-aid and no victimization. I am a repub, because I agree with the things, for the most part, that they espouse. I am not a redneck, single issue, uninformed rural voter, and neither are most who voted for GWB. To generalize and say that we are is the elitist crap I detect all the time on this site. Mike-you don’t think a 600-800 drop in your tax burden is a lot? How much do you pay? that’s the difference between a small payment in and a huge return for me!
The real propaganda is that you think we all just regurgitate Rush and o’Reilley and Fox news. Talk about oversimplification! Talk about being dis-informed.
I’m not a victim-We’re winning! When the democrats start being the democrats of Kennedy and stop being the democrats of Dukakis…we’ll have a real fun time!
'why is it that you think If a person agrees with a conservative economic policy, they are dis-informed?'
I don’t. Conservative Economic Policy makes sense to me and I agree with it. You are disinformed if you think 4 years of GOP administration has enacted it. They have enacted the shiny, popular part of conservative economic policy (the bit about lowering taxes - the easily-digestible ‘re-elect me’ soundbite), but completely blown the doors off the other essential part (lowering spending). If you think this is truly conservative economic policy then you ARE misinformed. It’s not elitism to say this.
You won’t get near the truth about any of this with shrub and his allies. whenever they got debated into a logical corner during the election they immediatel spouted some lame lie about character and assissinated on their opponent with those lies and most people bought it. willful blindness is a hard thing to see…of course it works on both sides of the fence but I see IMHO that the right is very much more a lock step party then the Dems. This whole thing of if you don’t support me then you are unpatriotic is straight from Nazi Germany and Russia of old.
why is it that you think If a person agrees with a conservative economic policy, they are dis-informed? I have looked at this and don’t think its wrong to cut taxes as Bush did.
I have no problems with a conservative economic policy but Clinton did that & still looked our for people, e.g., family leave act. My father is an old school, live-let-live Republican & I agree with him many times. He was also against the war. But the right-wing has taken over your party.
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Mike-you don’t think a 600-800 drop in your tax burden is a lot? How much do you pay? that’s the difference between a small payment in and a huge return for me!
Please don’t get me wrong, I’m all for tax cuts but not when we’re starting a war (we’ve never cut taxes during wartime until Bush), and not when it creates a huge deficit. I don’t think 600-800 is that much considering all that needs to be done in this country. I’d rather pay a little more in taxes & send my kids to public school for example. As it is, the schools in CA s*ck because we don’t pay that much in tax out here & the schools have been slashed. So I send my kids to private school which costs me a bundle. I’d have more money if my kids could go to public school. When I lived in ME, I paid more property tax but the schools were better.
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I’m not a victim-We’re winning! When the democrats start being the democrats of Kennedy and stop being the democrats of Dukakis…we’ll have a real fun time!
But you see, you have fallen for the propaganda but neither Kennedy or Dukakis, is as bad as the right-wing have made them seem. If you look at their actual policies, particularly Dukakis, you’ll see that they were pretty good. Tell me one thing Kennedy (or Kerry) has done that has hurt you or that is bad (and be fair because Bush has done some bad things). I don’t really think you have looked into it, you’ve just bought the right-wing smear of liberals as bad guys.
