How to Separate Vocals in N…
So, after two or three years of mixing with N-track, I’m coming to the conclusion that I really don’t know how to do BGV’s. I can sing them ok, I just can’t mix them worth a flip. 
I know the techniques (more or less)for tracking pop stuff. Pan, compress, add 'verb. Double track and pan again.
I’ve never really heard anyone talk about EQ’ing to separate. Or, what if you’re doing like a barber-shop quartet, or Southern Gospel where the 4 parts (or more) need to blend, stand out, but still be separated? Even A capella…Never really heard a good discussion on how to make the vocals “pop” w/o stepping all over each other.
Discussion?
Frankly, the best recordings of 3 or 4 part harmony to my mind are made with a single mic, folks all around it.
I think I would agree. However, I found thru many, MANY hours of effort, that it is extremely difficult to do on one’s own. At least well… 
BGV are indeed a challage - like a great deal of the other recording. I have found that if I am doing my own backups, I need to more farther from the mic to reduce the amount of presense when I sing. I try to think about how sound comes from a stage. The lead is in the center front and that part stands out from the other voices - I try to put the backup parts “behind” the lead - usually, still in the center but “back” of him. Try moving off mic to do the backups and see if you like that better.
There are some things that I have found to work well for recording and mixing bluegrass and A capella - type harmony vocals. One thing that I do is like what was suggested above... for the back-up vocals I increase the distance to the mic.
Another thing that can make a difference is adding more reverb to say, the tenor and baritone vocal tracks.
The extra reverb will draw those vocals more to the background.
Mess with the EQ...Take a little of the low end out of the tenor, add a little low end to the bass vocals.
And fine-tune the the volumes of the harmony blend.
For bluegrass, I generally would have the lead stand out front, and would have the tenor the second highest in volume with a little more reverb than the the rest of the parts.
This gives a dynamic and powerful edge to the recording mix.
To me, I guess it depends on the voices’ role/context within the song. The more going on, the less distinctive the b-voices need to be, i.e. eq them together and knock out the low end, maybe some verb. The closer to simple folk/bluegrass/a capella, the more distinctive the voices should be, with more dynamic eq’s and more separation with each voice occupying its own eq sliver and panning spot in the stereo field. If that makes sense. That’s my uneducated philosophy, anyway. I hear ya about the difficulty of singing 3/4/7/9 parts by oneself live on a singular mic!
In addition to all that has been said about backing off from the microphone to add some room sound, and adding reverb to put the background vocals further back in the acoustic field, you might want to slightly pan the background vocals, some left and some right, to make a center hole for the lead vocal.
Listen to commercial recordings that have the sound you want. Then use a vocal eliminator (Goldwave, for example, has that effect under Effect/Stereo/Reduce Vocals) to reduce the lead vocal and if the background vocals remain, they have been panned off center. Also, listening to a recording with headsets will allow you to more easily hear where the vocals have been panned.
Seems as if this topic has taken off with a second wind…let me fan the flames, please.
As an example, let’s say that I’m recording an a capella SATB arrangement, all by my little lonesome. I’ll sing the Sop down one octave and alto, tenor and bass as written. (which I can do with reasonable success in the keys of F thru A).
Question 1. How would you use the EQ to separate out the vox? I’m asking for more or less specifics – cut here at 200, boost at 1k…
Question 2. Would you make any distinction in compression ratios/units/settings? If so, what?
Question 3. Would you double track it all if you were looking to create a folk / bluegrass / southern gospel feel or do each part once?
Question 4. If you pan the lead dead center, tenor to the left and alto to the right, what would you do with the bass, in terms of panning?
Disclaimers: Please don’t reply with “it depends” unless it’s follow with a reason why it depends, and what it would cause you to do differently.
Please don’t use the term, “use your ears”. I know that. That’s what music seems to be about. I know that if it sounds right to me, then it is probably right. I’m looking to see what sounds right to you. Many of you have years more experience doing this than I do. Particularly in the mixing.
Have at it!
Billthecat, all of your ideas Might work for you. I don’[t think there is just One Way to do it and the sound you want is going to control what you end up with. There just is not a single answer to a questions that is really a question of what the creative process may produce. A mentor of mine once told me" The secret to creativity is a poor memory." It might be said that creativity results form trying to create - sometime it is unique. Sing the parts - nailt the intrepretation. Then go to working trying out your ideas!
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I don'[t think there is just One Way to do it and the sound you want is going to control what you end up with.
Bax3:
I would completely agree with you. One of the things that I love(d) about this forum is the radical differences in the ways people approach things. My fear is that my question has come off to you as, "what is the answer to that question on the test", when what I'm really trying to ask is, "I know how I've done it. But, how would YOU do it?" One of the things I need from time to time is for people to shake loose the dust that settles on these topics in my brain.
I've got presets and chains that I muck with all the time. I start over, and try it differently. It took me two years to finally quite messing with and release my first attempt at self-produced music. I'm just curious to see how the other half lives. That's why I bolded the word "you" in the previous post. Make sense? Just want to glean from your wisdom, if you'll let me. For instance, I thought that this quote was really good:
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The more going on, the less distinctive the b-voices need to be
I hope you'll see this as a quest for wisdom and not for the ONE answer.
Hi Gents and All:
I went through the replies and all looking for something that I would try with the mixer strips and all … but If I missed something I stand corrected…
If I were trying to separate Harmony-and-Backing Vocals I would attempt to delay some or each of the vocals by shifting the tracks by some number of “Samples”. ( Forward-or-Backward)
Not so much that they create a noticeable echo…
I would create two tracks of vocals…
One for the out-front vox and one for the Harmony backing track…
I would create a timeline just for the vocal tracks…
and…
Group the Harmony tracks and Group the Front track…
Then play with putting the Harmony track’s
Phasing and Sample Sliding by using the “Undo” feature of each Move till you see-and-hear something that you hear will work or sounds interesting…
Then create mixdowns and re-insert the vocal renders back into the music rendered timeline and see what happens… Remember to "Sample Slide these rendered vocal tracks to line up or Time Adjust for the Re-insertion difference…
At some point-in-time you can insert Effects into the Group Strips without affecting any other strips or groups to create Dynamics for those tracks…
If you need to import music tracks into this “Make-up Timeline” for the vocals just don’t include the music tracks into the newly created mixdowns/rendered tracks…
You see this method creates a huge amount of files…
The rendered files create Giga-bits of files…
It’s a slow process but the way Flavio has the “RENDER” Feature setup there is no way that you can render groups…
This idea is just for the purpose of creating and moving beyond the point where you are presently are with this Mix Session with your project…
This might not work for everyone…
BUT…
It might be worth a try…
Bill…
My rambling theroy is: if you’re arranging/singing SATB all by your lonesome, my goal would be to make it still sound like a tight 4-piece group/choir, rather than 4 individuals recorded separately. Therefore, I would treat the parts as equally as possible for a cohesive sound (efx the same, eq similarly). Use panning (heavy, if a capella) to get separation. You can use eq in specific spots to enhance certain things, such as: low-cut bass part, but add back some dB’s at 40 or 50 Hz for some sub-bass response depth without muddying up the track, or cut 16/20kHz off the Sop part so it doesn’t cut through too harshly. Damping on reverb will help that too, if you so choose. I know most folks here like compression and use it often. I use as little as possible, personally, because I don’t like the way it jerks with the tone, esp. in instruments that depend on high-end clarity (acoustic guitars, vox, cymbals, etc). I’d almost rather go through and set volume evolutions manually. THat’s just me.