I was reading in my new favorite book, “Home Recording for Dummies” about gain structuring earlier this week.
I kind of passed right over the part about setting your initial recording levels, until I saw his recommendations on line in settings.
He recomends a inbound signal peak level to be no higher than -6db on 16 bit systems, and no higher than -12db on 24 bit systems.
I was stunned.
I thought you went as close to 0db as possible w/out going over.
Then I looked at my DK+ drums monitor (that I usually leave off), and noted that it was clipping over 0db all the time — at it’s default settings.
Without the realization that the drums were clipping at the initial stage,
I have been pulling my faders back 3-6db for the drums, then found out that they were clipping in the “out of sight out of mind” compressor located in the fader’s EQ channel.
Anyway, this may be the reason for the bad, lifeless sounding drums… the signal is boosted, squashed, then boosted, then squashed again…resulting in a very bad sound.
Which leads me to my question, and this may be too general, but hopefully you can find a way to word it so that you can answer it specifically.
How do you guys structure your gain settings for the drums - and for everything else?
Do you agree with the guy about the settings for the input?
All the best,
Jonathan Wilson
Testament (the band)
BTW, work is really slow in the summer - so I’ve got all kinds of time for my music… hoping for great things!
He recomends a inbound signal peak level to be no higher than -6db on 16 bit systems, and no higher than -12db on 24 bit systems. I was stunned. I thought you went as close to 0db as possible w/out going over.
Which leads me to my question, and this may be too general, but hopefully you can find a way to word it so that you can answer it specifically. How do you guys structure your gain settings for the drums - and for everything else?
Do you agree with the guy about the settings for the input?
Yes, that information is spot on. As for setting the input gain... well, what else is there to know? Peak around -6db to -9db for 16bit and -12db for 24 bit be it guitar or drums or yak yodelers.
I mean, yes, as close to 0db with out going over is theoretically correct, but that little bit of room is a practical safety net. You use all the bits available to you, but you have a little bit of wiggle room should something in that perfect take get a little louder than you anticipated and you still won't clip. For example, peaking around -3db is entirely too close to clipping for my taste as it will be inevitable that some rim shot will clip even though in the level setting process it didn't. Ya dig?
the gain settings in the book are OK for beginners, and act as a safety valve against what you have discovered - but thats for noobs - some record as close to 0db as they can others (like myself) stick to -3db across the board -
there are no hard and fast rules, and even clipping the input can be beneficial for certain genre -
when recording drums most go for the most expansive sound they can get out of the kit or machinr - this may sound GOOD, but leads to problems later -
drums cover a larger frequency range than many supose, the greater the idrums range the harder it is to get it to sit correct in the MIX - the bog standard ROLAND 707 type ELECTRONIC KIT, can actually sound batter in a mix than the worlds greates drummer playing for you - having a shorter frequency range the Roland kits cause less interferance in the surrounding audio, making the mix cleaner and less MUDDY -
also dont add effects to drums other than at the very last stage of the MIX, acoustic (REAL) drum kits are not made with built in reverb EQ or god knows what - they are just drums, and thats how to deal with them - you may think that compressing the hell out of them makes them sound better - but you will never get the mix right - the DRUM is king, leave it alone and it will serve you well - mess with the king and the final product will be a MESS -
Dr J
Peak around -6db to -9db for 16bit and -12db for 24 bit be it guitar or drums or yak yodelers
I like to peak my yak yodelers somewhere around
-90db.
Someone once told me that I sing kind of like a yak yodeler…
Bubba Gump - do you use the DK+ drum system, and if so, which kit do you use most? I’m using the “Acoustic Live” kit. They’ve got an “Acoustic Light Kit” as well…
Feedback from others is more than welcome…
BTW, I turned off the compressor on the internal DK+ program per recommendation, and the drums “came to life!” I didn’t have time to work on them - as the other guitar player in my band is in surgery for internal bleeding (from a go-cart accident) that happened last weekend. We’ve been told that it could go either way. It is a life or death kind of thing. His name is Matt. Please pray for him. He’s a great guy and an awesome guitarist. He’s only played on one of my songs in studio. You can hear him play guitar on “I Can See You” at www.soundclick.com/iplan He sings backup vocals and plays the rhythm guitar part that comes in at 1:10. Please pray for he and his family, that he’d come through the surgery fine if possible. Sometimes God has other plans though (afterall, “He’s not a tame lion”), so pray that we’d be able to accept a different outcome.
All the best,
Jonathan Wilson
Testament (the band)
Iplan,
Really sorry to hear about Matt. I’ll say a few
prayers for him.
Hope you don’t think this too crass, but maybe to
get your mind off his condition for a few moments,
– there are a couple of kits out there for free -
one is NS7kit or something like that. Anyway - most
kits come with several hits of each piece, in increasing
velocities. As you are probably aready aware, NTD can
load up several different layer velocities, or for that
matter a whole different sample altogether depending on
how hard you hit your keyboard or other midi interface
(pads) etc. It’s a little tough to set all that up,
but you could say - mix different kicks from different
kits on different layers on one (key, pad) and again
depending on how hard you bang the key, trigger a different
kick sound altogether. Can be interesting.
This should have been on your other thread - on drums
Prayers going up here for Matt as well JW.
Oh… Bubba plays his own drums on a real kit. They sound frickin’ awesome too… (green with envy…)
I like JamStix and EZDrummer. Quick and easy GREAT sounding drum tracks. It is a small investment for either or both but well worth it if you don’t have access to a real drummer, a great kit, a good room and all the other paraphernalia needed to get GOOD real drums.
D
PS Go HERE and listen to “ezdrum”. I out that together in about a half hour to forty five minutes to email by bud a quick EZDrummer demo.
Oh... Bubba plays his own drums on a real kit. They sound frickin' awesome too... (green with envy...)
Yup, I play them myself... I figure my folks ought to get some sort of return on those years of listening to me practice and paying for school.
I think Dr J is paying with fire pushing things that hard. It just takes one time to regret getting that close to 0. Do some reading on bit depth and you will see why those levels above are recommended. YOu maximize dynamic range and cover your butt from clipping.
Yo D, once I get the new studio finished up, I am happy to record tracks for you. I will have a dedicated drum room, so it will be a matter of sitting down and playing. The mics will be up 24/7 so it will be no big deal.
Yo D, once I get the new studio finished up, I am happy to record tracks for you. I will have a dedicated drum room, so it will be a matter of sitting down and playing. The mics will be up 24/7 so it will be no big deal.
Ahhh... forget it Bubba. Doc Rabbit sez I don't need real drums or real drummers. Just a sample or two. That's how the "REAL PRO'S" do it!
Psst... sarcasm aside, I might take you up on that offer Chip. Anybody can listen to your stuff and tell you have that drum "thang" down cold.
D