The Decider

TomS,

What is a cum book author?:D

<!–QuoteBegin>

Quote
and the Sabres bludgeon the flyers
:(

Philly boy here…

cum: Latin, preposition, “with”, used to indicate that one does one thing with another sort of in addition.

edit: oops, dave, I have a leaden wit, you were making a joke. :laugh:

we’re in overtime with the sabres/flyers. Montreal crushed the 'canes. :)

ksdb - you got that right except the part of the dividers - that’s you guys (the Republicans).

What’s funny about you Republicans if that you are in denial about how corrupt you guys are. The Abramoff scandal, which is just heating up, is entirely a Republican scandal and more Republicans are going to fall. And then there’s Duke Cunningham who just got 8 years in prison for his corruption. And of course, Tom Delay who’s neck is on the line also.

Well he’s another Repulbican scandal for you - James Tobin, the NH phone case. I actually met this slimeball myself. He lives in Bangor, Maine where my wife & I used to live. My wife knew Tobin when they both went to Bates College, you know one of those “liberal” Northeast colleges. This guys is typical of the Karl Rove, “New” Republican thinking, i.e., the end justifies the means, take no prisoners.

I believe he’s up for sentencing & could get 5 years in prison.

Former RNC New England Regional Director Convicted In
New Hampshire Phone Jamming Case.

“WASHINGTON, D.C. – After a four-day trial, a jury in Concord, New Hampshire today convicted James Tobin, the former New England Regional Director of the Republican National Committee, of charges stemming from a scheme to disrupt phone service to five Democratic Party offices and
a firefighters’ ride-to-the-polls program on Election Day 2002, the Department of Justice announced today.”

The RNC has paid $2.5 million for Tobin’s legal fees and the speculation is that they are trying to keep him from talking. He made dozens of calls to the White House during the NH election. I wonder who he was calling.

Seriously, you should be ashamed of yourself for being a Republican. You should be ashamed of your President lying us into a war in Iraq and then not taking responsibility for how badly it’s gone.

I can’t wait till the elections this fall!

Anyone who would DEMAND a list of what Bush has done right is OBVIOUSLY NOT going to accept or admit that Bush has ever done anything positive, especially because they feel compelled to save face or win an imaginary contest. As much as I dislike IFP Clinton, I have the integrity to admit that he did a a few positive things. Liberals are neither openminded or honest enough to do the same with Bush. That’s what makes liberals dividers; the fact that they only focus on the negatives when it comes to Republicans/conservatives.

with all these political experts ya’d think that america would have it together.
maybe if they ever give us sumthin real to vote on the experts can move in an really make a change…
but hey all ya jr politicians…dont hold yer breath waiting,

<!–QuoteBegin>

Quote
maybe if they ever give us sumthin real to vote on the experts can move in an really make a change…


Heh. Therein lies the rub dude. We won’t GET any other choices. A viable THIRD party will never appear. Big money (corporate thugs) will see to it that it won’t. Despite Soul man’s spouting of the ‘integrity’ of the Democrats, there are a lot of people out here who KNOW it’s the same bovine crap slinger carrying a different party card in his/her wallet. All one can do when voting is try to pick the lesser of two evils. That’s always a trick…

D

Seriously, ksdb, what top 3 things would you pick.

Soul - that phone jamming case was simply atrocious. Unbelievable. I cannot think of words to describe it properly. And how much coverage has it had? Have you heard much from teh dems about it?

:angry:

<!–QuoteBegin>

Quote
That’s what makes liberals dividers; the fact that they only focus on the negatives when it comes to Republicans/conservatives

And that’s BS! It’s the Republicans who have divided this country into Red & Blue, specificially Karl Rove did it. Admitedly, the Republicans have forced the Democrat’s into negatives and they do need to rise above that; however it’s the incestent right-wing media smearing Demcrat’s & liberal’s for 20 years that has led us to where we are now.

And what was more negative than the Swift Boat Vet’s for LIES??? Most of what they said has now been discredited as LIES. And the Swift Boat Vet’s cost Kerry the election. How much more negative can you get than what they did?

No you are wrong ksdb, it’s the Republicans who are the divders in this country.

Quote (Mr Soul @ April 23 2006,15:39)
<!–QuoteBegin>
Quote
That’s what makes liberals dividers; the fact that they only focus on the negatives when it comes to Republicans/conservatives

And that’s BS! It’s the Republicans who have divided this country into Red & Blue, specificially Karl Rove did it. Admitedly, the Republicans have forced the Democrat’s into negatives and they do need to rise above that; however it’s the incestent right-wing media smearing Demcrat’s & liberal’s for 20 years that has led us to where we are now.

Total nonsense. Red and blue states existed before Karl Rove, and Republicans have never FORCED Democrats to act like idiots. They have done that on their own. Blaming your woes on the right-wing media is an example of the divisiveness I was referring to. It’s as if you think the other side of the political spectrum should not be allowed to express itself. You and others around here go out of your way to intimidate and belittle those with whom you disagree.

Quote (Mr Soul @ April 23 2006,15:39)
And what was more negative than the Swift Boat Vet’s for LIES??? Most of what they said has now been discredited as LIES. And the Swift Boat Vet’s cost Kerry the election. How much more negative can you get than what they did?

The Swiftboat veterans were an independent entity. They were not a part of the Republican party. You’re certainly willing to give other people credit for being smarter and more politically influential than Democrats. Of course, when we’re talking about Jo.Ke., there was never a requirement for intellect or guile.

Quote (Mr Soul @ April 23 2006,15:39)
No you are wrong ksdb, it’s the Republicans who are the divders in this country.

Republicans come up with ideas and Democrats only come up with complaints, excuses and protests. Their constant negativity is what makes them dividers.

Quote (TomS @ April 23 2006,14:16)
Seriously, ksdb, what top 3 things would you pick.

It’s a funny thing. When Bush won the election, I came on here and said that the bickering about Gore losing in a questionable election should stop. I said that we needed to support our President no matter how you felt about the election and that I, for one, would support him.

You see ksdb, I believe in the office of the President. The man who occupies it is the leader of the free world. And I truely believed (at that time) there was no way he could possibly hurt the United States. I believed that he could tighten up the budget and shrink the government (like a good Republican). I believed “his words” when he said he would bring home troops from all over the world and he would be against “nation building”.

Here is the problem ksdb. I believe in honesty and integrity. I believe in them to a fault. And this President has lied to the American people countless times. The words he used to get into office were a lie. The words he used to get us into war were a lie. The stories he told about his knowledge before and after the Katrina disaster were a lie. He lies about his lies. People die when he lies. Lots of them. And even though I was supportive of him at the beginning, he has lied to me too many times for me to trust him anymore.

So you can spin it as you like. But the facts are on paper with his blood on them. And he has lied to Republicans and Democrats. In his own way, he has brought us all together. He doesn’t care if the children he kills are democrats, republicans or muslims. He has his own twisted agenda and it has not been good for america unless you are Halliburton.

So the “find 3 things” question is an honest one. And if you are able to actually find 3 things that he has done that have been positive for the average american, then I will concede that he has done 3 good things. I have been trying to find reasons to feel good about this President for the last few years so I was hoping you could straighten me out.

But if you cannot find even 3 good things that he has done, then it may be time for you to concede that he just might not be that good a President.

Mike

Quote (TomS @ April 23 2006,14:16)
Seriously, ksdb, what top 3 things would you pick.

Soul - that phone jamming case was simply atrocious. Unbelievable. I cannot think of words to describe it properly. And how much coverage has it had? Have you heard much from teh dems about it?

:angry:

Again, I don’t understand the obsession with demanding a list of three things. It’s as if you guys lack the imagination to come up with your own debate topics. Dr.G even went so far as to qualify what I couldn’t choose, which in effect nullifies an honest debate before it would even begin. There’s no point in coming up with a list of things for you and others to dismiss or ridicule out of hand.

Quote (ksdb @ April 24 2006,00:02)
Again, I don’t understand the obsession with demanding a list of three things. It’s as if you guys lack the imagination to come up with your own debate topics. Dr.G even went so far as to qualify what I couldn’t choose, which in effect nullifies an honest debate before it would even begin. There’s no point in coming up with a list of things for you and others to dismiss or ridicule out of hand.

Here is the original question:

<!–QuoteBegin>
Quote
Remember that this president is a two term president and listing 3 positive things he and his republican majority have done for the common man should be easy pickings. And be careful not to pick things that have caused more problems than they have solved (ie. tax breaks that have directly contributed to a huge, out of control deficit).


My only “qualification” was that you could not pick something that ended up being a fiasco. You see you can’t pick something that was really bad for the american people. So if the $400 tax break was on your list of “good” things, then I thought the 5 trillion dollar added deficit during his administration nullified any good. But if that is the only thing you can come up with, then you are welcome to use it. Just realize that not everyone will see the $400 as such a “good” way to spend the governments money.

Lastly ksdb, a debate only happens when you take a stance and back up your argument with facts. Since you never do that and instead just randomly complain about democrats, it is pretty obvious that if this were a debate, you would be losing badly.

<!–QuoteBegin>
Quote
There’s no point in coming up with a list of things for you and others to dismiss or ridicule out of hand.


Actually in a debate you are supposed to discredit and dismiss your opponents arguments. So this is not really a debate because I am handing you a silver platter. All you have to do is list three “good” things GW Bush has done for the average american and I will concede your win… period. But since I am willing to go that far, the 3 things should be pretty close to unquestionably good. That was the only qualification. And since there has been a republican majority for many years, finding 3 things should prove simple.

So here is the cream pie. Throw it at my face. :)

DrG, I’m not going to get into a game of guessing what you will admit is “unquestionably good.” Technically anything I list could be questioned. Try showing some real honesty and just point out those things you’re willing to admit are “unquestionably good.” If you say none, then we’ll know you’re indeed a divider.

Custard!

Quote (ksdb @ April 24 2006,01:09)
DrG, I'm not going to get into a game of guessing what you will admit is "unquestionably good." Technically anything I list could be questioned. Try showing some real honesty and just point out those things you're willing to admit are "unquestionably good." If you say none, then we'll know you're indeed a divider.

Ha ha ha ha ha ... ha ha ho ho ... aahhh ha ha ha ha :laugh: :laugh:

ksdb, I gave you carte blanche and you still duck answering a simple question. I would take any list "you" would consider good but you still cannot come up with a simple answer.

It is you who are the divider. I am willing to stand by what I say. You say nothing but allude to negative retoric "democrats are dividers".


You continue to prove what I have said about you all along even though I give you repeated ways to prove me wrong.

If you cannot name even 3 things that GW has done that were good for americans, then just stop posting imaginary claptrap about how GW/republicans are good and democrats are bad. You just end up sounding like the true divider that you and the republicans are.

You see ksdb, if you point out real problems with facts, then you are not a divider, you are a person trying to correct problems.

If instead you just call derogatory names of everyone else and never take responsibility for your own actions, all the while pushing people apart with made-up concepts, then you are a divider. You fit this definition.
Quote (DrGuitar @ April 24 2006,10:53)
Ha ha ha ha ha ... ha ha ho ho ... aahhh ha ha ha ha :laugh: :laugh:

ksdb, I gave you carte blanche and you still duck answering a simple question. I would take any list "you" would consider good but you still cannot come up with a simple answer.

It is you who are the divider. I am willing to stand by what I say. You say nothing but allude to negative retoric "democrats are dividers".


You continue to prove what I have said about you all along even though I give you repeated ways to prove me wrong.

If you cannot name even 3 things that GW has done that were good for americans, then just stop posting imaginary claptrap about how GW/republicans are good and democrats are bad. You just end up sounding like the true divider that you and the republicans are.

You see ksdb, if you point out real problems with facts, then you are not a divider, you are a person trying to correct problems.

If instead you just call derogatory names of everyone else and never take responsibility for your own actions, all the while pushing people apart with made-up concepts, then you are a divider. You fit this definition.

You're making my point FOR me DrG. The smileys and mocking are absolutely the childish behaviors that are so typical of liberal dividers. You make up an imaginary and arbitrary challenge, but when you are called on your dishonesty you can't step up and show otherwise. Prove me wrong and show everyone that you're not close-minded and can admit positive things about the Bush administration.
Quote (ksdb @ April 24 2006,00:02)
Quote (TomS @ April 23 2006,14:16)
Seriously, ksdb, what top 3 things would you pick.

Soul - that phone jamming case was simply atrocious. Unbelievable. I cannot think of words to describe it properly. And how much coverage has it had? Have you heard much from teh dems about it?

:angry:

Again, I don't understand the obsession with demanding a list of three things. It's as if you guys lack the imagination to come up with your own debate topics. Dr.G even went so far as to qualify what I couldn't choose, which in effect nullifies an honest debate before it would even begin. There's no point in coming up with a list of things for you and others to dismiss or ridicule out of hand.

I promise I won't ridicule. I have tried really hard, and I can't think of a major thing that Bush ahs done well or correctly. Honestly. In the end it might just come down to you believe that X was good, and I don't - which would be interesting - but even more interesting is if you pointed out something that I could agree was a good thing.

We're talking major things here, however - I think it's great that Bush has spent time in kindergarten classrooms, for example. Every president ought to do that sort of thing, to help children learn about the office and democracy in general. So there, I did find something he has done that I think is good. But how about the major issues?

In your dreams ksdb.

The divide has never been as great until Karl Rove came along.

The Democrat’s don’t act like idiots. I don’t agree to this claim at all.

You obviously don’t listen to right-wing media because it’s vile & hateful & full of smear/lies.

<!–QuoteBegin>

Quote
The Swiftboat veterans were an independent entity. They were not a part of the Republican party.

They are not technically part of the Republican party but they were part of the Republican machine. Only a fool would say that they are not.

<!–QuoteBegin>
Quote
Republicans come up with ideas

I’ve heard this claim for years now. What ideas have the Republicans come up with? Please enlighten us. I expect you to answer this question.

Everyone - notice how ksdb doesn’t comment on Abarmoff, Cunningham or James Tobin. It’s like I say, he’s in denial. He’ll try to take the focus off from these issues by blaming the Democrat’s but it’s not the Democrat’s who caused all this.

Is the phone jamming caper an example of a Republican idea?

<!–QuoteBegin>

Quote
You make up an imaginary and arbitrary challenge, but when you are called on your dishonesty you can’t step up and show otherwise. Prove me wrong and show everyone that you’re not close-minded and can admit positive things about the Bush administration.


I am being completely honest when I say I can not find anything good GW has done for the average american. And Tom, I do not believe that photo ops count as a positive for the average american. You are not the first ksdb to not be able to find a positive side of the president. Since I am a devout independent, I have asked this question of both my republican and democrat friends. And this question only came about after years of lies by the white house. Neither my republican or democrat friends can think of any real good the current administration has done. A few of the republican friends have pointed out the “tax break”, but all of them qualified it with “the money went to the wrong people”.

So although you seem to be able to spin with the best of them, it is still smoke and mirrors you are spinning.

The question is not about you or me, it is about an administration that does not seem to be able to put a positive program together for the average american. And since democrats are not the ones in power in any way, you cannot continue to blame the democrats for our current debacle.

Well you can, but it is nothing but a transparent lie.