Ok, after an hour of trial and error, I finally figured out what’s going on when I freeze groups. I thought I would pass on the fruits of my labor:
Normally, after you’ve created a group, you can continue to independently adjust the volume/pan of each track going to the group. (ie, the fader/pan slider for each track acts as a “send” to the group).
Suppose Track 1 is your Kick Drum mic, Track 2 is your Left Drum Overhead mic, and Track 3 is your Right Drum Overhead mic. You send them all to group 1.
If you want to add a little more kick to group 1, but keep the overheads the same, you slide up the fader on track one. The kick moves up in volume in relation to the overheads (and everything else in the song). Suppose you want to pan the overheads- you move Track 2’s slider to the left, and move Track 3’s to the right. They then are panned left and right in the stereo image, even though Group 1’s slider is dead center. The beauty of the group is that once you have the kick/overhead balance correct, you can bring ALL the drums evenly up or down in volume with one fader.
No surprises so far, right?
HOWEVER. Suppose you add some processor-heavy plugins to your group. (for example a stereo compressor and an eq). If you later need to free up some processor speed you might be thinking- “okay, i’ll just freeze group 1.” SO you do it and Group 1 is frozen.
Normally, when you freeze a single track, the plug-ins get frozen but the volume control and pan sliders (and automation envelopes) remain active. That is, you can’t tweak the effects, but you can continue to tweak the volume and panning.
BUT, freezing groups works differently.
When you freeze a group, all volume controls and pan sliders (including automation envelopes) on your original tracks become frozen as well. Thus, in the example above, the individual volume faders and pan sliders on tracks 1, 2, and 3, become inactive after you freeze Group 1. In fact, if you “solo” track 1, 2, or 3, you will hear all of Group 1, not the individual track! The volume fader and the pan slider of Group 1 remain active, however.
Need to go back and turn up one single kick drum hit? Gotta unfreeze Group 1 first. Decide that you don’t want those overheads panned quite as much? Gotta unfreeze Group 1.
Maybe you all knew this already, but just in case I thought I’d pass it along…
Hi FNULNU:
That’s what I’d like Flavio to do in the “Mixdown” portion of n-Track. I’d like to see Flavio to show the groups in the mixdown screen so that the groups can be mixed and then inserted into the timeline as a track… or as into a new timeline for the project… Or… as an addition to what some refer to as “Stem Mixing”. I’m looking for more than one instance of a Group… Maybe, to use as and for “Cross-Fading”, or whatever… you want to call, it…
It seems as though I’m not getting any support for this request…
“Old School” ideas seem to prohibit “In-the-Box” / “Software Mixing” from taking the next progressive step…
That’s a Powerful Line… 
Bill…
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| When you freeze a group, all volume controls and pan sliders (including automation envelopes) on your original tracks become frozen as well. |
That’s the behaviour I would expect.
Recently, I had a couple of otherwise finished and mixed multi-track recordings I wanted to process in another application (due to a particular reverb plug-in not working correctly in my current version of n-Track - but nevermind).
I started by making a copy of each mono track - including fader automation, but excluding pan and effects - as separate files. Manual freezing, you could call it… I then imported the track copies into n-Track, added the effects plug-in I needed, set the pans properly, and then I had all the automation of each track residently at my disposal.
The backdraw is that the level automation limits what you can do with the effects return signal, being locked to the levels of each track. (In other words, you are stuck with a post-fader effects structure) The big deal (for me) was that I didn’t need to redo all the tedious fader automations in the other application. Time-saver, that one…
Now, if we could have some kind of cross-platform freeze-format that could be unfrozen in another application… [dream on…!]
regards, Nils
| Quote (woxnerw @ Dec. 02 2006,04:27) |
| Hi FNULNU: That’s what I’d like Flavio to do in the “Mixdown” portion of n-Track. I’d like to see Flavio to show the groups in the mixdown screen so that the groups can be mixed and then inserted into the timeline as a track… or as into a new timeline for the project… |
So If I understand you correctly:
You mean, when you go to mixdown, and N-Track asks you to select which track(s) you want to include in your mixdown, you’d like N-Track to ask you not only which tracks to include but also which group(s) you want to include?
That way, you can easily make a .Wav of the group, create a blank track, and then bring the .wav of the group onto the blank track. (and then mute the individual tracks that comprise the group). This would save processor power and allow you to automate volume and panning moves on the group.
I think it sounds like a great idea!!
However, what happens now if you tell N-Track to mixdown only those tracks that are being sent to a certain group? It may do exactly what you want… it MAY create a a .WAV that includes any processing done to the group.
| Quote (FNULNU @ Dec. 02 2006,22:24) |
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However, what happens now if you tell N-Track to mixdown only those tracks that are being sent to a certain group? It may do exactly what you want… it MAY create a a .WAV that includes any processing done to the group. |
I just checked it… it appears to work!
Hi Again FNULNU:
I am directing this reply to everyone on this Board and anyone reading this post… Not to anyone in particular… Sorry, again for my Rant… everyone…
I have no issues doing the Task, that way… Except…
I stand corrected with this statement… I use plug-ins in the “Group” strips, and in the “Mastering” strip… Nothing NEW… So, without rendering Groups … How can I hear the effects of plugs in a rendered group?
Those plug-ins will not appear in the rendered portion of the mixed-down tracks… That is… if I create “Group” mixes In-the-Box…
If I create Group Mixes out-side the Box, … then… that is not an issue that I need to worry, about…
I can create “Group” mixes perfectly, All Day, if I don’t add plug-ins to the “Group Strips”… The Group’s Plug-ins that I use include Imaging, dynamics, and limiting, among other effects… I don’t want to add those plugs to individual tracks… I want to include those plugs to everything in the Group…
After rendering several “Takes” of the same group, I will then import all the “Takes” into a timeline and audition the “Right One” for the end product…
I’m not here to influence other guys how they reach their “End Product” or tell them how to mix their tracks… I just want to be able to mixdown groups the way I want to hear them by doing rendering “In-the-Box”…
There’s more to it than that… but this is what I’m looking at… In-a-Nutshell…
Bill…