Tina. Just to rule out the kind of mistake I could make - you haven’t got squillions of empty tracks with the odd ‘forgotten/didn’t know about/copy’ vocal track somewhere down the list?
Tina, there only one track at first, then then when the harmony comes it she has double tracked it, right?
Bubba - why would there only be phasing when she does the harmony?
If it were caused by interference in the way you suggest, that would mean that the overtones of the lower note are involved, to produce the filtering, wouldn’t it?
That does not seem likely to me. Still, she said that it is a common problem. And her pitch is really good on this little snippet.
Huh? Maybe I don’t understand then. What I understand is that one solo voice = no issues. Add a second take that is a doubled voice, issue magically arises and ONLY when the two takes are playing together. If either the original track or doubled track is muted, the remaining track sounds fine. If this is not the case, then we’re dealing with something else.
I don’t see how lower over tone or upper over tones etc matter at all. Two pitches that are very close to each other cause comb filtering and phase cancellation based on their periodicity. It has nothing to do with whether the pitch is high or low or… it has to do with frequency proximity. This is the same thing you hear when you tune two guitar strings to the same note and you hear that bit of phasey beating right before locking in the pitch.
quite a deep modulation, too. hmm!?
Another thought… if you hard pan the two vocal parts, does it seem to go away? Then if you flip to mono, does it reappear?
I don’t know anything - but it does, I think, sound a bit too mechanical for a natural effect - am I right?
This is what i am trying to troubleshoot for them. Really on tune vocalists have this issue frequently, but we have to determine if that is indeed the issue. Two autotuned tracks will do it too, but she says no autotune is being used.
It comes in quite natually, then deepens and almost squares-off at two points. Bonkers.
Sorry if I missed it, Tina, but, what mic?
Those Reaplugs look interesting cant wait to try them all out .
the delay is brill but no it didnt remove the funny effect on the vocal though it did let me moddify it.
There is no harmony on that clip I posted, just 2 takes of the same vocal part.
this is the 2 complete takes paned extreme L & R - hear the effect almost dissapear!
http://www.adrive.com/public…35.html
& this is them monoed
http://www.adrive.com/public…e0.html
The mic is a very old shure unidyne
i’ve always thought Allison has a discordant sort of low undertone
in her voice & we did used to speed the songs up abit whe we finished them which did seem get rid of it a bit.
I’m sorry the clips are wav files I couldnt seem to change them to mp3s this time
Thanks
Tina
Quote: (Bubbagump @ Oct. 14 2010, 2:54 PM)
What I understand is that one solo voice = no issues. Add a second take that is a doubled voice, issue magically arises and ONLY when the two takes are playing together. If either the original track or doubled track is muted, the remaining track sounds fine.
Yes this is the way it is
I listened to the stereo file and it is 100% the issue I describe.
Here is the stereo file that I tweaked.
Panned the left voice dead center and considered that the “lead” vocal.
The right voice (back vocal) I then ran through a pitch shifter making
it 6 cents sharp and then through a stereo delay. I MUTED the center (as this would be perfectly in time and cause the phase issue) of this track and then ran a delay hard left and another hard right. One at about 40 ms, the other at about 60 ms. Note, phasing all gone (or at least greatly reduced).
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8137282/Backvox.mp3
She is simply phrasing things nearly identically as well as tonally. Seriously. Welcome to the physics of audio. Perhaps N has you trained to think like this, but it isn’t always the software.
ducks 
Well, it’s clear you are correct, bubba. What was confusing me was the fact that it was happening when she was singing two different pitches. I was sort of under the impression that this sort of effect would only be found when it was the same pitch.
many thanks Bubba its a great relief to know its not more gremlins in our equipment.
i’ve spent all my spare time lately frustrated just battling to get it working instead of playing music which is what i love to do & its not long before you think its just not worth the hassle & go back to watching the telly all night instaead like everyone else does.
Thanks to everyon else aswell for their ideas.
Tina
Hi Everyone:
I’m in the midst of editing an audio file that I ripped from a DVD…
There was some hi-frequency noise on a section of the file, the type you get when there is a noisy channel on a live stage…
Hi-frequency hash, in-and-around 10 kHz.
and the like…
Anyway I edited the noise floor on the file using GoldWave(latest version/build)…
GoldWave has a "Noise Filtering) plug that works pretty good for removing that type of noise from audio files… Well 
? It has three levels of noise removal, when using the plug…
I hi-lighted the section that need the noisefloor removal and render’ed the plug and then played the file with the noise removed, to hear the render…
Lo-and-behold I heard the same Phasing Effect that TinaM’s file has on it…
I then, “UNDID” the render and tried all three levels of the effect to hear the levels of rendering (thast the plug can create) to the section of the file…
What I heard was, three different renders of different intensities of the Phasing Effect…
The file I am editing is a .wav file that is up-converted file, the type that would be compressed on an Audio-for-DVD …
I have no idea what type of compression used on this particular DVD…
Who Knows ?
Bill…
Quote: (TomS @ Oct. 14 2010, 8:18 PM)
Well, it's clear you are correct, bubba.
What was confusing me was the fact that it was happening when she was singing two different pitches.
I was sort of under the impression that this sort of effect would only be found when it was the same pitch.
That's the rub. Were they absolutely identical, then we would simply hear an increase in amplitude... it would be louder. Here things are REALLY close to being identical but off just enough that we have this issue. Again, this is an identical issue as to when you tune your guitar to another string. That weird phaseiness appears when the two strings are really damned close but not locked 100% exactly on pitch. Incidentally, this is also how a phaser effect works... except a phaser has a fixed modulation period.
I do doubling with vocals all the time and have never had this problem in 10 years.
Either I am just that good, or I am just bad enough for it to never be an issue. 
keep shinin
jerm 
Trust me… It AIN’T cause you’re that GOOD… 
UJ
As long I don’t have issues it doesn’t matter to me what it is 'cause 
keep shinin
jerm
Quote: (jeremysdemo @ Oct. 15 2010, 8:00 PM)
I do doubling with vocals all the time and have never had this problem in 10 years.
My guess is that you pan them.... or are that different from take to take to not run into this. The physics of it is the physics of it though.
I hear Unconed is pro wermin AND pro vegetable.
YEs I used to pan them a bit.
BUt now I tend to put them through different FREEQ presets (backup vocal, and lead Vocal) along with use the reverb track of the second take so it has a bit of delay from it’s clean counterpart, leaving them both dead center.
YES bubba I also record TWO mono tracks of each vocal take, one clean and one processed FX (hardware) which allows me to hear the effect as I am recording without using CPU…so it is not completely unnecessary…in all scenarios.
keep shinin
jerm