4.0.5 sucks even worse than earlier versions!!!

JohnnyRock,

I have only recently upgraded to v4, and I have to say that 4.05 has proved very stable on my PC to date … no errors, unexplained crashes and definitely no BSOD.

I can only echo others and say that if your system is producing these it doesn’t appear to be n-Track’s doing. It could be the way n-Track is interacting with something else in your setup, but without more information we can’t help you isolate that.

Cheers,

I have a feeling at this point he doesn’t want to solve the issue.

Most of the time, I just internalize my anger, frustration, and disappointment with my nTrack issues, but on Friday when I tried 4.0.5 and the installation itself interfered with other unrelated programs such as Netscape, yeah I had to vent a little! There’s something fundamentally wrong with an installation program doing that. Frustrated as I am, I’d love to get the problem solved!

To help, here are more details of the issue. I’m running XP hom edition on my laptop. I’m using an Ozone USB-based audio/midi keyboard. It works fine in numerous apps, such as Creative Music Creator and CoolEdit (as well as others) so I don’t think the laptop, OS, or Ozone have anything to do with the problem I’m having. I’m using ASIO audio drivers (the most recent available) for this device in nTrack. I load a VST, such as this one http://home.mindspring.com/~ikaldor/LightBag.htm
Other VST plugins also cause the same problem in nTrack so I don’t think the problem has anything to do with this particular VST. I open an instance of the VST, then open a new MIDI track and assign the VST to it. Then hit the LIVE button. Then exit nTrack. Boom, it crashes every time! This is where I’ll sometimes get the BSOD a few minutes later, but not every time.

Trying to track down the problem based on suggestions in this thread, I found and ran Registry Mechanic. It found some things, but that didn’t help the nTrack issue at all. I also tried removing my VST plugins and re-running the vstscan.exe, but this crashes when run from a cmd prompt. Maybe there are command line options for the vstscan program??? I can’t find much about how to run it. So it is possible nTrack isn’t scanning my VSTs properly, although it doesn’t complain about it when nTrack scans when it starts up, which seems to work fine and sees and uses my VSTs just fine (until I exit nTrack). I can run MiniHost (available here http://www.tobybear.de/p_minihost.html) which uses both the above-mentioned VST and ASIO with no problems whatsoever at considerably lower latency than I’ve been able to get from nTrack.

JR

Okay, we still need the nature of the BSOD. What specific stop error are you getting (gimmie some hex numbers, something like 07fa0001) and does it reference any drivers, DLLs, etc.?

As for ASIO drivers, are you using ASIO drivers in any other apps (besides TobyBear) or is N-track the only one?

As for VSTScan, it shoul dnot be run outside of N-track (It won’t work). What you want to find is your VSTScan LOG and maybe post what it shows. It will tell you if a VST is bombing out and which one.

Is there any particular reason that you’re using the ASIO drivers? I’m using the WDM drivers (for a different M-Audio product admittedly), set at 24-bit Unpacked left justified, which seems to work fine.

I’d love to report BSOD specifics but the screen only flashes up for a small fraction of a second so I can’t provide those details easily. If I get some time (ha, well it could happen) I’ll put a video camera on it.

I have tried ASIO on other software, specifically Tracktion. Probably others as well, but didn’t verify as I have with Traction.

I cannot find the VST log. I did a search for vst*.log and came up with nothing.

I’m using ASIO drivers because the latency is almost tolerable with VST instruments. WDM drivers do not give low enough latency to be useful (IMHO). I’ve tried ASIO4ALL but ran into serious issues when trying to bring up nTrack without the Ozone plugged in. This is yet another serious nTrack issue, but at least it doesn’t cause BSOD (if it worked, I would use nTrack roughly half the time with the Ozone plugged in, and half without it present).

There’s a Windows registry tweak to fix that. Anyone know where it is? (No reboot on BSOD.)

System Properties > Advanced > Startup and Recovery Tab > Uncheck Auotmatic Restart.




TG

PS Well what do you know! I figured out the picture link thang!

Yo bro, I hear you (Johnny Rock). Don’t waste your time on v4.x! Thats the solution until Fla decides to put the extra time in or hire (or get volunteers) to test several hundred mobo-video card-sound card-etc. combinations. Thats what its gonna take to get N4 truly stable. Stability includes working on the widest variety of hardware, unless you qualify it with specific brands and models like digidesign does.

Maybe thats what should be done, because the system requirements at this point are as vague and meaningless as promises from a greasy politician (take your pick!).

V3.3 works perfect on my setup- with a great PS its like a hardware recorder.

Big F must have a day job or something because N4 is progressing slowly on a number of fronts.

Now I revise my estimate that it will probably be v4.3 before most people are working and not debugging. Hopefully Bloat.Net will help. Thats the deal with $69 programs.

no cents

Hey guys! I think it’s kind of wrong to dump Ntrack in with all 69 dollar programs, it’s a way more advanced / sophisticated
and technically challenging project than the price tag would suggest.

I’ve been using build 1800 for a month plus, I’ve not upgraded because I’m mid project and wanted to test my music making abilities and vst’s more than just debug and so on.
I have noticed that once I have more than 20 odd stereo waves(converted from vst’s via mixdowns) and use big plugs
like EWQLSO etc I can get into some problems, like there does seem to be a limit to how many tracks the mixer will deal with,
eventually it refuse to load all the new channels for a new plug if I happen to go there, but, really, it’s a full featured
multi dimensional recording studio solution, with great precision built into the timing for synced playback of live vsti’s via midi along with audio tracks and so on, comparing it with
a cheap program is just wrong on almost any level.

Anyway, when I had actual problems with vsti’s crashing,
(and as it happened, only particular to me vsti’s were doing it)
I emailed Flavio, and after a short time he solved (and explained) the devious nature of the bugs that I had in fact found, and released the fixed version which has allowed work to continue without referencing the problem again.

So my verdict is, the program is worth alot more than the price tag suggests ie it’s undervalued, and also, if one is serious about fixing problems, there are channels worth
exploring, especially email contact with the developer.

After saying all this, I admit that since I found build 1800, (which was very stable for me, and a nice round numbered build)
the idea of being a beta tester has failed to move me enough to dl the new versions since I also do have a life outside the range of my mouse and screen!

regards

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… but on Friday when I tried 4.0.5 and the installation itself interfered with other unrelated programs such as Netscape, yeah I had to vent a little! There’s something fundamentally wrong with an installation program doing that. Frustrated as I am, I’d love to get the problem solved!


This is the part that intrigues me. I don’t use Netscape (although I do have both Mozilla and Firefox installed), but I can state hand on heart that my installation of 4.05 interfered with absolutely nothing else on my system. No missing bookmarks, no mysterious errors in other software (or n-Track itself for that matter), nothing.

If there was something “fundamentally wrong” with the n-Track installation then there should be a whole slew of people on this board experiencing similar or identical problems.

Is there anyone else getting this?

If so, is there any HW or SW present on all the affected systems that could point to the problem?

I use both Firefox and IE (some pages still need IE which is a pain…) and installing 4.0.5 didn’t affect either of them at all.
Did seem to affect any of my other audio apps either (Cool Edit Pro2, Tracktion, Jamstix).
The main plugs I use at the moment are the Kjaerhus classics along with a few mda ones and SIR 1008 and no probs with them either.
I’ve opened up a few songs last saved with the last v3 build and no probs either.

I don’t use Tracktion that much. I was using it for a while to do some testing with Jamstix when they first released it and I think it was around the same time 4.04 or 4.05 came out.

Use CEP2, Firefox, IE and all the plugins all the time though …

BSOD really seems like a hardware problem though.

Johnny have you tried repairing windows?
We had a problem at work today where we couldn’t get an image that was worked on 1 PC to work on another - it kept rebooting at the login screen.
Tried a whole bunch of stuff with drivers etc. in safe mode and eventually someone tried repairing XP using the CD and it seems to have fixed the problem.
Not sure what repairing does but it might be worth a shot… (I’ve never used it myself or heard of anyone coming a cross a situation that required it before today)

Rich

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Not sure what repairing does


Quite simple really, a repair installation normally just reinstalls the app (or in this case the OS) over the top of the previous installation, replacing files along the way but leaving your settings and registry unaltered - so all your HW and SW keeps working.

Because corrupted or unusable files are therefore replaced with brand new copies, any problems caused by the corrupted or unusable files immediately disappear.

This is a somewhat simplifed, potted version of what the repair is doing, but I think it covers the salient points. I have never had to do it with an XP installation, but it has worked great for me in the past with both Win98 and MSWord.

Cheers,

As I said initially, I strongly suspect the .NET framework part of the nTrack installation is what destroyed my Netscape settings. I have no reason to suspect anything else. FireFox and Explorer are different software, so perhaps .NET framework is somehow specifically targeting Netscape. Stranger things have happened. Something else is that the 4.0.5 installation (or the .NET part of it) also changed my XP login settings. Prior to installing 4.0.5, I had set up XP to automatically login as me. After 4.0.5/.NET framework installation, it went to the standard XP login screen. Strange but true!!

OK here is the text of the BSOD, not really very informative though:
**
A problem has been detected and windows has been shut down to prevent damage to your computer.

If this is the first time you’ve seen this Stop error screen, restart your computer. If this screen appears again, follow these steps:

Check to be sure you have adequate disk space. If a driver is identified in the Stop message, disable the driver or check with the manufacturer for driver updates. Try changing video adapters.

Check with your hardware vendor for any BIOS updates. Disable BIOS memory options such as caching or shadowing. If you need to use Safe Mode to remove or disable components, restart your computer, press F8 to select Advanced Startup Options, and then select Safe Mode.

Technical Information:

STOP: 0x0000008E (0xC0000047,0x8051D1B8,0xF8B29A00,0x000000)

Beginning dump of physical memory
Physical memory dump complete.
Contact your system administrator or technical support group for further assistance.


I have plenty disk space. I looked in the BIOS setup and found no cache related settings.

Hope this helps,
JR

Go HERE and read all about it.

TG

Johnny,

For what it’s worth you’re not alone in one thing - I too am now being asked to log in to Windows XP, even though I only have one logon ID set up. This started after I downloaded and installed the .NET framework. I didn’t notice it for a few days after that, so I thought it might be related to some security-related Windows Update (I have Automatic Updates enabled on my computer).

However, I’ve had no stability problems with 4.0.5 - I’m presently using build 1740.

Don

This looks liek bad RAM perhaps. However, this error seems to be popping up everywhere on machines with certain BIOS versions.

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Intel P4 Prescott, Celeron D, or Extreme Edition processor
Some affected motherboards
Abit IS7-V
Albatron PX865 PE Pro
Aopen AX4SG Max
Aopen EA65
Asus P4P800-E deluxe
Asus Terminator T2-P
Foxconn 865A01-G-6EKRS
Gigabyte GA-8PENXP
(requires BIOS version FF)
Jetway i875P
Shuttle SB61G2
Soyo P4I865P
Motherboards with one of these types of processor may need a BIOS update.
One emergency measure is to either boot into safe mode or disable both L1 an
d
L2 caches in the BIOS to get the machine to boot, then uninstall Service Pac
k
2, then wait for an updated BIOS. However, now a better way is known, thanks
to my fellow MVP Cari at www.coribright.com.
The cause appears to be that the machine’s BIOS does not install a
production level microcode update (a correction to a fault in the
microprocessor’s own microcode).
To check whether the BlOS is at the correct level download the Intel
Processor Frequency ID utility from
http://support.intel.com/support/pr…s/frequencyid/. The microcod
e
version is identified by this utility as “CPU revision”.
Family 15 (0xF), model 3, stepping 4 – must have a microcode update
signature of at least 8. Latest microcode update signature is E.
Family 15 (0xF), model 3, stepping 3 – must have a microcode update
signature of at least 7. Latest microcode update signature is B.
Family 15 (0xF), model 3, stepping 2 – must have a microcode update
signature of at least 7. Latest microcode update signature is A.
If the revision number is lower than that or zero, boot into Safe Mode by
pressing F8 after the BIOS boot sequence, then selecting Safe Mode from the
menu.
Rename the file:
%windir%\system32\drivers\update.sys
to some other name like updateDISABLED.sys so that it does not load.
Reboot into normal mode. Install Service Pack 2 again, and the computer
should now boot up completely.
Check your motherboard manufacturer’s website often for updates to your
BIOS, as this is only a temporary workaround.
After you install a correct BIOS on your machine, rename the update.sys file
back to this original name and test.

If you don’t know what cpu or motherboard you have install the home edition
of everest(free) it will id them for you.
http://www.lavalys.com/products.php?lang=en


I know for sure Foxconn is a big OEM manufacturor and have MOBOs in Dells and half the other big boys out there. Don’t screw with all the proceedures above. Just see if there is a new BIOS for your machine. The error you are getting reeks even more of a hardware issue now. And I’ll ask again, you do have the latest drivers for your MOBO’s chipset, right?

Quote (dontuck @ May 10 2005,13:26)
Johnny,

For what it’s worth you’re not alone in one thing - I too am now being asked to log in to Windows XP, even though I only have one logon ID set up. This started after I downloaded and installed the .NET framework. I didn’t notice it for a few days after that, so I thought it might be related to some security-related Windows Update (I have Automatic Updates enabled on my computer).

However, I’ve had no stability problems with 4.0.5 - I’m presently using build 1740.

Don

.NET sets up an account for itself. This is probably forcing you to login at boot time. This limited account is supposedly used to help protect your PC from certain types of hacks. At least that’s the story I was told. It may be OPENING up your PC to all kinds of attacks! :D

TG

**EDIT More on ASP.NET user account HERE

It’s easy enough to turn off the logging on issue under .net as I had the same problem. Can’t remember how I solved it though.

I do appreciate the help so far. I took a look at the MS website link, but I didn’t see anything in the BSOD 0x0000008e explanations that matches my system or symptoms. Also the explanation of BIOS/microcode issue is interesting but doesn’t apply to me because my laptop is a P3 at 1.13 GHz. That only applies to P4. Checked with laptop vendor, no BIOS upgrade is available anyway. Checked for updates to XP, (I’m already at SP2, but it did find one for that freaking .NET crap), but still my issues remain. I STILL think it’s freakin’ nTrack doing something screwy. Fact is, all my hardware and drivers work with other programs which brings us right back to nTrack. I agree it seems like it should be a hardware/os/bios/driver-related issue, but the fact is that ONLY nTrack causes the BSOD. None of my other audio/video/USB apps crash on exit either.