amp sims pt. II

:slight_smile:

I used the Green Machine amp sim for these guitars, and it’s a bit better than what I got before, but still not great.

Western Falls:

http://cookiefinger.bandcamp.com/track/western-falls

ah the search for the holy grail of tube amp soft sims…a decade and counting for me, honestly I just don’t think it is possible, we have had some of our best minds working on the logistics of it in all that time so far near misses.

If this one is half descent we should recommend it to Tina, since unlike many of the others it have very low system requirements (for the freeware “little” version).

Quote:


Required:



* PIII 500mHz processor


* 800x600 video resolution


* Windows 98, ME or XP


* The sound has to be at least 16-bit/44.1 sample rate.


have you thought of slapping something like a cakewalk tape sim on the end of it?
just to take some of the clean edge off the digital and give it a bit more warmth?

keep shinin

jerm :cool:

The closest sim to the real-deal today is hands down the Fractal Audio “Axe-Fx”.
The realism is astonishing but analog purists can still hear the difference.
I’ve played through one and they are indeed amazing but the tweak 'n twiddle time needed to really dial in a target tone can be tedious.
Then again, it’s a dedicated outboard hardware module too…you’re not going to get that tone out of Amplitube, or AcmeBarGig soft-sims, or even a BOSS GT-10.
Give technology about another 5-10 years to catch up…you need higher bit resolution for the sampling & IR engines to render digital realism that cannot be differentiated from analog by the human ear…except for maybe the “smell of that warm tube amp”.
We’ve barely broken into the 64bit arena which will be laughable when looking back 10 years from now.
If you can remember when the IBM XT came with 256K Ram, you’ll know what I mean.
:laugh:

Hey, My Apple II came with 128K. And that was HUGE. Recently I found a PDP 8 in a college storage room…still in working condition…how cool is that? :)

I have to say I have also been looking for an Amp Sim for years, Tom, with no luck. The closest I’ve come is Izotope trash, which is… not great.

A true crunchy distortion was my holy grail, and I think that unknown may be right, it isn’t possible to truly emulate that with the current technology. Certainly, hardware can do it (Galien Kreuger, anyone?) But the complexity of the code necessary to imitate what is going on inside a warmed-up JCM amp with the gain all the way up and the presence maxed is… well, it’s beyond the ability of anyone who is currently out there, I suppose.

For this reason, even though the rest of the effects I’ve found seem to be quite satisfactory, I’ve always had to record my signal with the distortion/overdrive already applied, because there is no software solution that can emulate what an Amp or even reasonably good effects pedal can do for distortion…

I thinks there are plenty of soft sims out there that emulate “crunchy distortion” just fine Danny…

depending on what you mean by that, one mans crunch is another mans trash.

What they haven’t achieved due to the actual hardware limitation of computers is tube tone…

Now if a digital representation of tube sound is needed in order for your “cruncy distortion” to be had, then than that is what is lacking.

Then again…Tom us using a really descent Tube PReamp in the $1500 range to prepare his guitar signal before the computer…and still no joy…so perhaps it is not the Tube Effect that is missing in this chain but something else entirely… ???


keep shinin

jerm :cool:

No, it is the tubes in the amp. The preamp adds a bit of color, but it’s not a guitar amp, and doesn’t do the same distortion. Nothing for it - real amps are the way to go, unless you want the digital effect. Maybe in a few years. No doubt 64 bits is going to look silly in a few years!

Quote: (jeremysdemo @ Oct. 24 2010, 10:52 AM)

I thinks there are plenty of soft sims out there that emulate "crunchy distortion" just fine Danny...

depending on what you mean by that, one mans crunch is another mans trash.

What they haven't achieved due to the actual hardware limitation of computers is tube tone....

Now if a digital representation of tube sound is needed in order for your "cruncy distortion" to be had, then than that is what is lacking.

Then again....Tom us using a really descent Tube PReamp in the $1500 range to prepare his guitar signal before the computer....and still no joy....so perhaps it is not the Tube Effect that is missing in this chain but something else entirely...
???


keep shinin

jerm :cool:

It's the complexity and composition of the harmonic overtones which tube amps produce that are difficult to reproduce in the digital arena with the given sampling algorithms. It's not so much a limitation with the knowledge of how to do it as it is with having the hardware platform and components to do it. I would imagine that it's being done in an R&D lab somewhere as we speak. My guesstimate is that we'll have it in an affordable and commercially viable format within 5-7 years at the rate things are going. I'm talking about tone which the human ear cannot discern between analog and digital in source; tone which originates from digital engines driven by oscillators and sampling algorithms. Just my 3 cents worth.

who says it’s going to be affordable? :laugh:

As long as these companies and individual programmers have been working on this one my guess is the first one to come out with it and/or patent it is going to make a boat load of deniro.

I mean even the crappy ones that are out there commercially (Joe Meek, Amplitude,etc etc) are fetching high dollars.

(ps. not saying Amplitude is crappy but I needed another name before the ect’s those are the only too of the top of my head that are overpriced IMHO)

keep shinin

jerm :cool:

Hmmm… what do I consider a good distortion?

“Lay It Down” by Ratt. Van Halen’s whole first Album (OMG!!! THE EVH BROWN SOUND!!!) “Everything About You” or “I’ll Keep Trying” by Ugly Kid Joe. The list goes on and on and on…

I’m looking for something like a Mesa Boogie, or a Galien Kreuger, or a Peavey 5150, and the only thing I find is Kazoos R Us :laugh:

Seriously, even Izotope trash does pathetic things to a clean signal coming in. I want something to compress a clean tone, throw it on the floor and roll it around until it’s nice and dirty, and then send it down the line to the next effect. Let me find something that will give me Brian May’s tone on “We Will Rock You” and I’ll do cartwheels down main street…

Quote: (dannyraymilligan @ Oct. 24 2010, 3:50 PM)

the only thing I find is Kazoos R Us
:laugh:

i couldnt have put it better, or funnier, do these software designers only play the kazoo?

I ended-up with all the free, demo and bottom-end sims but just never got into any of them - ended up with a little L6 Pod it’s ok!?
For me, it all boils down to expression, and that’s where digital loses over tubes and wires. The player has to control the beast that is the guitar, the amp and especially the room! puter can’t do it - as some have said - yet - I’ll go U1’s time scale.
The only guit sound of mine I ever liked was my CMI Tele>IbanezDis2>H+H 2xrev>1X18" open cab

sorry Tom didnt comment on your song i thought the guitar sound with the amp sim was quite good if a bit one dimensonal.
i do like your songs & particulaly your voice you sound like steve miller!

Tina

Quote: (dannyraymilligan @ Oct. 24 2010, 3:50 PM)

Hmmm... what do I consider a good distortion?

"Lay It Down" by Ratt. Van Halen's whole first Album (OMG!!! THE EVH BROWN SOUND!!!) "Everything About You" or "I'll Keep Trying" by Ugly Kid Joe. The list goes on and on and on...

I'm looking for something like a Mesa Boogie, or a Galien Kreuger, or a Peavey 5150, and the only thing I find is Kazoos R Us
:laugh:

Seriously, even Izotope trash does pathetic things to a clean signal coming in. I want something to compress a clean tone, throw it on the floor and roll it around until it's nice and dirty, and then send it down the line to the next effect. Let me find something that will give me Brian May's tone on "We Will Rock You" and I'll do cartwheels down main street...

If you don't mid giving up a kidney the GNX4 does just that.

Just watched one go for $110 that was including shipping.
:(
insane. (retail $499.)


I have all those guys Van Halen, Ratt, Brain May, all standard presets, it even has the MESA setting (although honestly it doesn't come close as far as warmth IMHO.)

Kazoo's R us...

A lot of those sounds you are describing tho came from speakers and mic combination's, specific ones too, your talking $1000+ speakers/cabs and pairs of $2000+ mics on $50,000 API/Neve mixing boards into $5000+ tape reels, and $5000+ compressors etc etc....
The problem with alot of these soft sims as I see it is just that they are not taking ALL of those studio factors into consideration, they are not emulating all of those factors that made these specific sounds on these albums so large, all you are getting is the amp itself in digital form, and even that is missing the speaker (or it's poorly digitally emulated as well).

FReeAMP had a good concept when it first came out, they at least incorporated speakers sizes and mic placement into the app and I liked the way they had the FX chains you could move around, some newer apps have room size you can adjust and with the 5.0 surround, but if they could incorporate what I am talking about, API sims for example and some apps that let you pic specific speaker/mic combination's as well as hardware emulation and signal chaining....well then if you had a good amp sim you would know it, right now your just hearing a D/I out of an amp and even in the studio that rarely if ever is used by itself, it goes through some sort of chain that enhances it.

The problem is the GEAR and KNOWLEDGE that is in these studios is not available as presets so trying to achieve the same thing in processing with just the amp sound is unrealistic.

keep shinin

jerm :cool:
Quote: (TinaM @ Oct. 24 2010, 4:43 PM)

sorry Tom didnt comment on your song i thought the guitar sound with the amp sim was quite good if a bit one dimensonal.
i do like your songs & particulaly your voice you sound like steve miller!

Tina

Somebody give Steve Miller a cheeseburger! :D

I played with the Green Machine II amp sim today, and it’s pretty good. Will post something in a few minutes.

I would put the tone on the first VH album at or near the top of my list. I also love the Mesa Boogie sound from the 70s. Mmm.

I know that a lot of the sound on VH’s first album was due to not only the EVH BrownSound, but also to the way the record was mixed. If you listen, you’ll notice that on most of the songs, there was only one guitar, all the way over on one channel, and then the reverb was over on the second channel. Then, for lead breaks, they often centered them in the stereo mix or flipped them in opposition to the melody guitar.

I’ve been experimenting with this on my n-track, and I find that the stock n-track reverb plugin was best for this. I would clone the track, put the first one in the left channel, totally dry with no reverb or delay, then on the cloned track, pan it about 85% to the right, use the default reverb, but drop the dry level all the way to zero, so that only the reverb came through, which would make my guitar sound very big and room-filling.

Of course, you can play with your room size, length, and dampening to alter the color of the reverb, and perhaps even emulate different venue sizes…

I find this to be particularly useful when I’m doing Strings on my keyboard, I’ll place different melodies in different places in the stereo spectrum, then oppose them with a lighter reverb, and it’s a very satisfying sound ( example: Danny Milligan - Jennifer’s Symphony )

Needless to say, playing around with just reverb in the stereo mix can really alter the sound of what you’re doing :)

Hi All:

That’s a nice sounding guitar track on the opening of that
song,
dannyraymilligan…


I was listening to the song as I was replying to the topic using Windows Media Player, when all of a sudden it stopped and a pop-up screen came up, saying Windows Media Player cannot play this file…
It doesn’t know the file extension…
or something…
???
It must be my old P-4 doin that… hehe…

Anyway, it (the guitar track) fits the song… :agree:
right-on…




Bill…

same here.

Danny! Are you putting your stuff up in little squirts?