Is this thing even real?
I discovered this beauty:
http://www.soundata.fi/index.php?link=16&tapa=3&koodi=BCA2000
Can you believe it has mic inputs, usb-2.0, all standard stuff PLUS midi control faders? What a simply excellent idea to me to put those in. Think about using this with your N mixer. All I’m concerned is the audio quality and compatibility with N. What’s it like, has anyone tried it? I’m very very much interested!!
Don’t believe it. My experience with Behringer, having been employed by a Behri dealer for more than three years, is that Behringer is garbage. Do not waste your money on it. It will have and/or cause problems and/or break.
Product info:
"The high-speed USB 2.0 interface with 24-bit/96 kHz supports 8 In & 8 Out channels simultaneously (analog and digital) with low-latency ASIO 2 and WDM drivers."
Eight channels over USB with low latency? Very hard to believe. Most other manufacturers go to firewire when more than four channels of audio are to be transmitted because of the greater bandwidth.
T
| Quote (Captain Damage @ Sep. 26 2006,05:43) |
| Don’t believe it. My experience with Behringer, having been employed by a Behri dealer for more than three years, is that Behringer is garbage. Do not waste your money on it. It will have and/or cause problems and/or break. |
My experience with Behringer has been dissimular.
Bought one through musicians friend a few years back.
I once broke the power supply, it got all these prong thingys like a mouse pluggin, by not lining it up right.
Sent the whole unit back, got a new one under warranty.
Never had any problems with it the mixer itself. It’s signal has always been noise free (of course I keep it in a ziplock bag when not in use to avoid dust getting into the inputs)
Built in Phantom power supply has never failed.
Quality product, with a company that stands by it, IMHO.
Of course my experience is limited to buying it new, can’t speak for used.
The only set back I see with my device is the limited output, two RCA jacks. And it seems they are responding to that limitation by coming up with this new doohicky!
(note to self: STOP SENDING LETTERS!!!)
keep shinin’
jerm
I own three Behringer products.
A compressor that is well built, and works and sounds great.
A mixer that is well built, but I find the IMP preamps to be harsh.
A multi-effect guitar pedal that feels like it will fall apart if you don’t handle it like glass, but sounds pretty good.
I’ve had most of them for years without a problem. So based on my experience, it is hard to generalize.
I have doubts about the mixer that Scythe is asking about because you would have to sqeeze eight channels through the USB subsystem on the attached computer, and I suspect that many computers won’t be up to such a demanding task. Just seems like asking for problems. Also I don’t like the IMPs very much.
T
Jerm, thanks alot! I think I’ll buy this unit. One thing I’m not really sure of, are there midi faders in this device or not? I get mixed info on different sources.
I only do home recording stuff for myself, so I probably need maximum of two inputs in use simultaneously. I think USB should be able to handle it (?).
I think that you’ll be safe with only two audio channels active. But if you only need two audio channels, there is a lot of good stuff in the $200 price range. One that seems interesting to me is from Line 6 - although I haven’t hear much comment about it:
Here for example.
T
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| because of the greater bandwidth |
really??? USB 2.0 is 480Mbps, ordinary Firewire is 400Mbps. In fact, USB 2.0 has more bandwidth than firewire.
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| really??? USB 2.0 is 480Mbps, ordinary Firewire is 400Mbps. In fact, USB 2.0 has more bandwidth than firewire. |
USB Hi-Speed is 480 Mb/s.
Some USB 2.0 devices can use USB Hi-Speed, but only if they’re certified and labeled as such.
So, USB 2.0 does not mean the same thing as USB Hi-Speed; there are plenty of USB 2.0 devices who can only manage USB Full-Speed at best. (12 Mb/s)
And Firewire 800 is much faster than USB Hi-Speed.
But, this particular piece of equipment does seem to claim Hi-Speed (but check to see if it’s USB-IF certified as Hi-Speed; if it’s not, then it ain’t!).
However in my experience if it says Behringer on the label, then the hype is probably better than the reality.
Also in regards to USB v Firewire, those speeds are MAX transfer rates.
For streaming audio, sustained transfer rates are what is important.
The brief reading I’ve done on the subject seems to indicate firewire is more stable and able to support a larger number of streaming tracks.
Somethien about firewire having dedicated resources/bandwidth but USB sharing resources/bandwidth
I think that berry unit only records stereo, but can control 8in/8out channels with its faders.
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| The brief reading I’ve done on the subject seems to indicate firewire is more stable and able to support a larger number of streaming tracks. Somethien about firewire having dedicated resources/bandwidth but USB sharing resources/bandwidth |
Yup. That pretty much nails it. However, lots of manufacturers are jumping on the USB2.0 bandwagon. MOTU has released a USB2.0 version of their excellent 828mkII. Reviews say it is great as long it is ALONE on the USB buss… If I needed beacoup I/O though, I would definitely go Firewire.
D
I would shop around a little more.
I’m sure you could get a better price on that same device, I’m not familiar with that outlet.
Here’s a similar device I found (well actually it’s a 10 channel digital recorder…tee hee) but it is on blowout! couple more bones than the behringer.
Tascam FW1082 $500
There’s other ones at that sit around 2-300 dollars that not only act firewire interfaces, but have effects, CubaseLE, and there own storage capacity.
keep shinin’
jerm
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| USB 2.0 does not mean the same thing as USB Hi-Speed |
the link
here explains the full USB spec
USB2.0 is backward compatible with 1/1.1 devices
True, Firewire 800 is faster, but ubiquitous ordinary firewire is 400Kbps and ordinary hi-speed USB 2.0 is 460Kbps. Yes, this does depend on the speed of the devices themselves, but the raw specification cannot be denied.
Also, the BCA, according to the manual, can, with a suitable ADAT interface record 8 separate digital channels. The manual shows an illustration with Berry’s own ADAT unit linked to the BCA for 8 inputs with 5:1 monitoring.
No I haven’t got one of these, but quality arguements aside, I have never know a Berry manual to actually not tell the truth - in fact their manuals are usually pretty good.
Re the USb v firewire debate. Many of the “big names” now make USB devices. the technology is maturing and IMHO there is little to choose between the 2 formats. Firewire has had its dose of downsides as well what with making sure certain chipsets are fitted and “hot plugging” issues.
The BCA is cheap, and promises alot. The Berry ADAT8000 is a well respected unit. My guess is that the BCA is a good buy if you need what it offers.
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| the link here explains the full USB spec |
And so does the link here: Wikipedia, USB, with a slightly less idiot level explanation and a more honest appraisal of how manufacturers actually choose to interpret the specs.
But you’re right maaszy, USB 2.0 does seem to be more popular with manufacturers than Firewire, and it probably will become the “standard”.
I haven’t tried the piece of equipment in question, and I’ll agree that some Behringer equipment is good value for money.
But for me, ‘trust’ is the critical word. Home recording for me is a hobby (i.e., I’m a noob, and the earnings don’t yet exceed the costs), but being a soundman at live gigs is what pays the mortgage.
When you’re sitting in silence explaining to the band, the promoter and the audience: “Well, I knew it wasn’t reliable, but it was cheap!” doesn’t quite cut it somehow.
sorry maaszy,
usb is 480 Mbps not 460 Kbps. BIG BIG Difference
Firewire is also Mbps not Kbps.
sorta funny how you even linked to a page that contradicted you… no offense
In other terms, like MB as most people are used to hearing, USB is 60 MBps and Firewire is 50 MBps.
These are theoretical limits. Actual transfer rates vary. Firewire, although technically slower, runs at a faster transfer rate because it is more constant while USB chunks everything into little bits and sends them in bursts.
Plus firewire is usually on its own bus while usb has to share it with your mouse and keyboard and whatever.
btw, I’ve got an ada8000 and as long as you have a quality adat cable, it’s great. sounds good enough and haven’t noticed a difference between my Echo Layla’s 128x multisampled 24/96 converters and the 64x multisample 24/48 converters in the ada8000. I suppose if you have a great control room and ears you might hear the difference but I can’t in my room that’s treated and uses event 2020 studio monitors
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| sorry maaszy, usb is 480 Mbps not 460 Kbps. BIG BIG Difference Firewire is also Mbps not Kbps. sorta funny how you even linked to a page that contradicted you… no offense |
I think that was just a typo Guitars69.
maaszy did say 480Mbps on his first post in this thread.
it wasn’t mean spirited just avoiding confusion to future newbies
no harm intended mr. maaszy. or mrs. I don’t know lol
I apologize if it seems otherwise
Sure that many USB2.0 labeled (cheap) devices arent using HI-SPEED, they run on FULL-SPEED mode at 12Mbps, but you can try to use GOOD USB2.0 HI-SPEED ““HUB”” powered by “transaction translator” (TT) on each its port. Then every FULL-SPEED USB2.0 or even USB1.1 (!!!) device will “inject” its isochronous packets into uplink HIGH-SPEED port, so you can use several(tens?) of such adapters together. Some tells about sync-problems without any master clock or synchronization between them, but some tried to use “system timer” in ntrack preferences successfully and if you look into MANUAL of latest version (2.7) of “asio4all” virtual asio driver for WDM, there author SAYS that whole tree of USB devices IS synced by design (usb bus controller always “pulls” data from all slave devices itself - I cannot confirm this, but it sounds right for me too…). AND!!! - If you are using any USB audio devices, avoid ANY thrid party “special”, “better” drivers AND avoid ASIO drivers TOO!. BEST is to use (latest, patched) windows default “usbaudio.sys” class driver, it is closest to hardware and even efficient than any ASIO wrapper - it has best implementation, lowest latency (M$ isnt REALLY so bad company, as many teenagers thinks…). USB-AUDIO CLASS is simply standard by its own, nothing can be done better by “better” driver (cheapest usb adapters have such “better” drivers for software based consumer audio effects, 3D, equalization or so… but WE have DX/VST plugins which are far more efficient and flexible using kernel streaming, it is similar design as ASIO, CoreAudio, or ALSA - at least Cakewalk developers know how to use it VERY well :-). One big issue with more USB audio adapters is that they all are often identically named (using windows driver) and it is hard to identify each one for MIXER settins (some integrated/persistent system-mixer replacement will be good to EMBED in ntrack…try to look for “AudioSliders” in google for tip, but I havent found yet really easily usable external applet…). Important is to have whole HUBs/DEVICEs setup always the same - the same ports on HUBs and on computer, then devices enumeration stays the same (do not try to remove/insert devices during operation too). NEVER install any driver for USB audio device - leave system to detect it. Order of insertion next new adapter to hub ports is important too - ALWAYS THE SAME SETUP, so use labeled stickers for ports and cables, its little confusing, but its only practice)
Special “creature” here are 1in/2out CHEAPEST 48kHz/16bit usb singlechip adapters (based on C-MEDIA CM-108/109, mostly used in “skype” phones or “usb-key-like” adapters), which were UNUSABLE until latest builds (5.0.2 - 2179?) for LIVE mode - but now, it looks Flavio repaired this, so I am just going to try his latest build 
Until now, I had succesfully tested recording without sync-problems to 6 mono tracks using 6x this chapest skype phone over 3 daisy chained HUBs, of course, without LIVE monitoring - WHICH IS my dream … to route mixed monitoring back to all of them:-). Disassembled PCB with this chip is slightly bigger than SD-card…, simply cool toy, or not?
so all from me,
have a nice usb!
Petr Antos
(Sorry, I am really BIG fan of usb2.0, especially with multi-TT hubs - try to look for HP “QuadTT” or similar one:-)))