Rove is next…
He OUTTA there! And I thought baseball season was over…
TG
Trick or Treat! 
It’s refreshing to see a public official show accountability for their misdeeds and resign, instead of embarrassing the office and the public.
First time in 130 YEARS that a white house official has been indicted, as I understand it…
Now, watch, as dems fail to take advantage of the situation.
That’s right Tom. Here’s what Bush what to say:
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| THE PRESIDENT: Today I accepted the resignation of Scooter Libby. Scooter has worked tirelessly on behalf of the American people and sacrificed much in the service to this country. He served the Vice President and me through extraordinary times in our nation’s history. Special Counsel Fitzgerald’s investigation and ongoing legal proceedings are serious, and now the proceedings – the process moves into a new phase. In our system, each individual is presumed innocent and entitled to due process and a fair trial. While we’re all saddened by today’s news, we remain wholly focused on the many issues and opportunities facing this country. I got a job to do, and so do the people who work in the White House. We got a job to protect the American people, and that’s what we’ll continue working hard to do. I look forward to working with Congress on policies to keep this economy moving. And pretty soon I’ll be naming somebody to the Supreme Court. Thank you all very much. |
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| It’s refreshing to see a public official show accountability for their misdeeds and resign, |
Why is that? You obviously didn’t read the President’s remarks - Scooter is innocent.
| Quote (Mr Soul @ Oct. 28 2005,16:50) | ||
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Why is that? You obviously didn’t read the President’s remarks - Scooter is innocent. |
The misdeed was failing to provide testimony to prevent being indicted. Libby will now be preoccupied with defending himself which would prevent him from properly doing his job. When he is acquitted, will you be demanding that Libby be reinstated??
| Quote (ksdb @ Oct. 28 2005,16:20) |
| It's refreshing to see a public official show accountability for their misdeeds and resign, instead of embarrassing the office and the public. |
Agreed. IF there were wrong doings, he'll have to take his lumps. The right thing to do was resign at let everyone else get on with business.
Indictments do not prove guilt. Although in this case, I think they got him. Fitzgerald, from what I have heard/read is not one to cry "Wolf".
TG
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| Libby will now be preoccupied with defending himself which would prevent him from properly doing his job. |
I thought lawyers are supposed to do that?
This is exactly why Clinton’s lawyers said you can’t indict a sitting President, i.e., because he won’t be able to do his job.
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| When he is acquitted, will you be demanding that Libby be reinstated?? |
You mean if he is acquitted. Yes - if he is acquitted & it’s before the Bush term is up, I’d have no problem with him going back to work.
Mike, I was sort of thinking that there is a greater respect for due process on the part of dems than repubs. The presumption is, of course, of the utmost importance, and what Bush said about it is exactly correct (not the crap about how hard scooter has worked for me - worked to make my paycheck go down, go into his pocket, and just generally go, yes, but not for me) - but the part about letting the process take care of things. Radical Repubs have never let the process (or principle) stand in their way. I personally hope this is the beginning of a crash and burn for the admin, and that reasonable repubs with integrity come back into fashoin, but in any case the dumb thing is that most dems will do exactly what the President suggested, let the process handle it, because they know that the rule of law is the bedrock of freedom, and, as the learned if fictional Rumpole would have said, the PoI is the golden thread of all common law systems.
So…when and if he is found guilty or not, we will have cause to be proud that the system worked. But somehow that line, the only one really available to the dems, doesn’t strike me as one that will sell in the aisles of Walmart. They cannot stoop to Rove like tactics, and most of them won’t. Let’s hope that folks get how important that is.
Hmmm…potential pardon in the works?
phoo, I’m amazed you even bothered wondering about that… of course he’ll get pardoned! Then he’ll write a book or two, ink a movie deal and make more money than most countries GNP. It’s the American way. 
TG
| Quote (Mr Soul @ Oct. 28 2005,18:43) | ||
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I thought lawyers are supposed to do that? |
Your question is trifling unless there’s some substantial reason for to you believe that Libby would not participate in his own defense.
| Quote (Mr Soul @ Oct. 28 2005,18:43) |
| This is exactly why Clinton’s lawyers said you can’t indict a sitting President, i.e., because he won’t be able to do his job. |
And it’s exactly why Clinton should have resigned with some dignity intact. Had he seen the bigger picture, Al Gore would likely still be president today.
| Quote (Mr Soul @ Oct. 28 2005,18:43) | ||
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You mean if he is acquitted. Yes - if he is acquitted & it’s before the Bush term is up, I’d have no problem with him going back to work. |
I said what I meant; thanks for affirming that you will demand that Libby be reinstated.
| Quote (TomS @ Oct. 28 2005,18:52) |
| Mike, I was sort of thinking that there is a greater respect for due process on the part of dems than repubs. The presumption is, of course, of the utmost importance, and what Bush said about it is exactly correct (not the crap about how hard scooter has worked for me - worked to make my paycheck go down, go into his pocket, and just generally go, yes, but not for me) - but the part about letting the process take care of things. Radical Repubs have never let the process (or principle) stand in their way. I personally hope this is the beginning of a crash and burn for the admin, and that reasonable repubs with integrity come back into fashoin, but in any case the dumb thing is that most dems will do exactly what the President suggested, let the process handle it, because they know that the rule of law is the bedrock of freedom, and, as the learned if fictional Rumpole would have said, the PoI is the golden thread of all common law systems. So…when and if he is found guilty or not, we will have cause to be proud that the system worked. But somehow that line, the only one really available to the dems, doesn’t strike me as one that will sell in the aisles of Walmart. They cannot stoop to Rove like tactics, and most of them won’t. Let’s hope that folks get how important that is.
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In reference to your comment about due process: There were many Dems, as well as members of the media, who seemed to have little interest in due process as they were demanding that Bush immediately fire Rove or anyone else on basis of speculation and/or suspicion. The funny thing is that in Libby’s case, it would have been wrong to fire him for suspected leaks; his indictments are for much different issues, none that could have been forecasted as applicable reasons to preemptively terminate someone’s employment.
ksdb, Libbly does not have a right to the job, so due process is not an issue there. His hands were so dirty that in most other contexts he would have been suspended or something like that, or asked to step down, or yes fired. Also, you have read the indictment? These are only the indictments up to this point, and mroe are coming. I am totally impressed with the case that Fitzgerald has put together.
Rove, Libby, Cheney and the rest are under such a cloud of suspicion that in most cases they’d have been out of a job long ago.
I think you are on the losing side in this one. These people really are evil, they have systematically lied to us and broken the law to achieve their own selfish ends. These are not the republicans of old, not even Reagan lacked integrity when it comes right down to it, although I think he was wrong about almost everything. And just imagine how GHW Bush is taking this - he must be livid about the whole thing, and I suspect not all that critical of the prosecutor.
| Quote (TomS @ Oct. 28 2005,18:52) |
| So…when and if he is found guilty or not, we will have cause to be proud that the system worked. But somehow that line, the only one really available to the dems, doesn’t strike me as one that will sell in the aisles of Walmart. They cannot stoop to Rove like tactics, and most of them won’t. Let’s hope that folks get how important that is.
|
Ha ha ha ha …ho ho… ha ha ha…
(reads it again)
Ahhhhh HA HA HA ha ha ha ha ha ha …
I guess I’m feelin particularly cynical today…
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| Let’s hope that folks get how important that is. |
Man, that is good material Tom…
I’m not sure the Dems will ever get it. They are on a completely different level than the Repubs. And it seems like the repub constituants feel the same way as the ones running the show.
Republicans:
We are the moral party (unlike the Democrats)
Be moral!
Love God (the way we want you to)
Do as I say! (not as I do)
We have God on our side (so it doesn’t matter if we cheat or lie or steal to get what we want)
We want small government( when we are not in power)
Tax breaks for everyone! (but the money really needs to go to those that make the most cause they know how to spend it properly)
Democrats:
We are a moral party (but are not comfortable rubbing it in the face of others)
We want everyone to be equal (so lets not step on anyone’s toes)
Love God (your own way)
Be Moral! (we should not play on the downfall of others)
We want more government programs ( to help everyone reach equal ground)
We love God (but we are not perfect and are not willing to claim that we are the chosen people)
Tax breaks (only for those that NEED them)
The Dems will roll over yet again and allow the Republicans to continue the raping of america. And no one… no one will thank the Dems for taking the “high ground”.
sad situation…
Yeesh Doc… what a tirade! Probably an accurate one though…
TG
Rove & Libby are pure evil. Bush is too IMO. Republicans have been crooked for years because they’ve always had power whether in office or not. They’re just really good at persuading the common, middle-class person that they are on their side.
Plus, the moral majority has taken over the party -witness what they did to Meirs. Meirs should have had a hearing & she should have had an up or down vote. That’s been the right’s mantra all along. It’s going to come back to haunt them because now the Dem’s have to fight if Bush appoints an ultra-conservative to the bench. It’s going nuclear I predict. However, if Bush is smart he won’t do that (but I have no faith in his judgement at this point).
Not the moral majority, seems to me - rather, two groups: evangelicals who have forgotten the importance of separation of church and state and the importance of freedom as an end in itself - they see the state as a tool to realize religious goals and freedom a barrier. And corporate folks who only want one thing, and it isn’t other-centered…
Hmm…sounds like some other religious extremists to me…who, now? Hmm…