sync 2 computers together
HEy
I was wondering if anyone knew how to sync two computers together,
I will give a brief explanation of what I am trying to accomplish.
With recent computer failure I am contemplating recording to two drives simultaneously.
I already use an external back drive to back up each project, however, I would like the added security and mobility of using TWO hardrives and separate computers, so that in the event that one of them crashes I will have a backup system already loaded with windows XP and not have to transfer any files to it.
My thoughts about how to go about this is using a single wireless mouse and keyboard, and have two USB receivers on each computer.
I would be monitoring each computer with two separate flat screens as well, I am just curious as to if the mouse will be positioned on each screen the same, so that when I click “record” on the one, the other is also on “record”.
My thinking is that I would need both computers to have the Ntrack icon positioned in the same place so that the first thing after start up would be to click on that, and then record, perhaps I could put a stopgap of some kind on each USB receiver
in the vent the two get misaligned I could shut one off above the “record” button and align the second, then turn the other back on…???
Those all sound doable however manual and archaic, that is why I ask if anyone has already gone down this road and knows a simpler and more effective way of going about this task.
keep shinin
jerm 
Sounds liek you are trying to be overly complicated. I wouldn’t think doing this in real time would be all that great as the “master” system would have to write to disk then immediately read to keep your sync. If you really have a bug up your back side to do this, DRBD or Doubletake (is about your only option.
http://www.drbd.org/
http://www.doubletake.com/english…lt.aspx
Past that, I would sync after recording using either rsync in Cygwin (probably the fastest as it syncs only changed blocks) or PathSync from those evil dum dums who make Reaper:
http://cockos.com/pathsync/
Quote: (jeremysdemo @ Mar. 30 2009, 7:49 AM)
simpler and more effective way of going about this task.
SIMPLER WAY
My opinion is that the headaches aren’t worth the benefits.
would be easier to have a disk/usb/flashcard connected and do a “save as” x:/backup/latesthit.sng when you get a new part done you are happy with.
Sounds like twice the trouble for beta testers 
But why stop at just two?
How about quad comps? Sorry buddy I’m in a comical mood.
Don’t be so worried unless of course your recording pure gold.
Quote: (Poppa Willis @ Mar. 30 2009, 10:53 AM)
would be easier to have a disk/usb/flashcard connected and do a "save as" x:/backup/latesthit.sng when you get a new part done you are happy with.
I'm thinkin that PSF are the ticket to security and piece of mind.
Quote: (Poppa Willis @ Mar. 30 2009, 10:53 AM)
would be easier to have a disk/usb/flashcard connected and do a "save as" x:/backup/latesthit.sng when you get a new part done you are happy with.
Sure, then I will have a back up just like the one I already have on the 120G external drive.....
Of course, trying to boot up either if those without a computer that has Windows XP on it is going to be a challenge! lol not to mention ALL of my hardward that runs off of WindowsXP, if a drive goes and it's my only one I am once again up the creek.
Anywho, the last time I had to transfer all my music files off a computer because it failed to boot it took me 29hrs.
We are not talking one "good" project here, but many many that accumulate over months and that different parts are stretched out into many differnt sng. files, like one for bass, one for keys, one for rythm guitar, one for lead guitar, one for vocals (but often 2 or 3) for EACH part then there are all the "mixing" files.....which have all their own necessary mixdowns....and my stuff is not well organized, I have "parts" here and there, as I come up with them, or as a file gets over say 30 tracks I tend to mixdown and continue in a new file....it's not enough to just have the ONE good file I am happy with, when I often need to go back to fix/edit something from 5 files back in a series of 20.....
And that's just ONE song.
I am sorry I just don't have the chops to get everything perfect in one good take that saving a single file of each instrument is going to work.
The idea I am hoping to achieve it to not have downtime as hardrives die out, but to have a back up computer with XP on it and with all the files I need on it already as I go.
keep shinin
jerm
Quote: (Diogesneez @ Mar. 30 2009, 9:31 AM)
Quote: (jeremysdemo @ Mar. 30 2009, 7:49 AM)
simpler and more effective way of going about this task.
SIMPLER WAY
The link did not work, but I see in the URL it is an ADAT, and I was contemplating that....
However, that does not seem to address my issue of editing/FX/mixing settings I have within Ntrack.
Sounds great for just having raw back up files like I have on the external Phantom drive.
Also I am not sure anything recorded to the ADAT would sync up later to my own files......on the computer.....
And it does no solve the problem of if the computer crashes, now I no longer have a computer with XP to run all my hardware, but I got this fancy recorder! tee hee
keep shinin
jerm
Hmmm… link works here…
Anyway, yeah it’s an Alesis HD24 24 track hard disk based recorder. Current bid $600. If a dude had one of these to record his gigs with plus the Alesis firewire drive caddy to move the files around to a computer… It’d be a whole heckuva lot more robust than tracking gigs with a PC.
D
PS Acronis TrueImage, Norton Ghost etc… that’s the way to make sure you always have an exact duplicate of your hard drives (including the OS) available in case you need to restore a system. Acronis has saved my butt more times than I care to think about. Worth every cent…
Quote: (Levi @ Mar. 30 2009, 11:01 AM)
Sounds like twice the trouble for beta testers ;) But why stop at just two?
How about quad comps?
Does a child start out running?
Baby steps.
Quads would be great, a few low profile flat desktops in a rack.
I figured two is practical with what I am using, a GNX4 with multiple outs, along with a Soundcraft mixer.
I could send the GNX either direct through a USB to one of them, and patch another stereo signal through the Audiophile/Firewire to the other.
I don't know if it would work, only that if it is possible to monitor both Computers and control them simultaneously I would try it.
keep shinin
jerm
Quote: (Bubbagump @ Mar. 30 2009, 9:28 AM)
Sounds liek you are trying to be overly complicated. I wouldn't think doing this in real time would be all that great as the "master" system would have to write to disk then immediately read to keep your sync. If you really have a bug up your back side to do this, DRBD or Doubletake (is about your only option.
http://www.drbd.org/
http://www.doubletake.com/english....lt.aspx
Past that, I would sync after recording using either rsync in Cygwin (probably the fastest as it syncs only changed blocks) or PathSync from those evil dum dums who make Reaper:
http://cockos.com/pathsync/
YEs that's it bubba I do have a bug in my backside,
however when it is fumigated and falls off it will be far less painful than the nagging pain of file transfers and setting up all the software and drivers for various XP devices....two days later I can record again....that bites and stings.
Like I don't have a day job, I got to babysit file transfers and driver downloads as a hobby
Thank for the links, I will check them out when the new (PC's) get here.
Curious as to why you suggest an after recording sync? If both proggies are set to a snap to setting of 0 and are both started at the same time would they not finish the same?
Is there something I am missing? (insert joke about my mental capability here)
The plan is to have the other system as a back up in the event of BOOT FAILURE, and if one fails (which is why I would be even using the other) then there ain't going to be any "syncing" you dig? those files will either be lost or trapped on a drive until have a few days to spare to get them off.....
keep shinin
jerm
Quote: (phoo @ Mar. 30 2009, 10:17 AM)
My opinion is that the headaches aren't worth the benefits.
There are going to be headaches?
in that case just forget it....my head aches enough with relying on one machine.
keep shinin
jerm
Quote: (Diogesneez @ Mar. 30 2009, 4:17 PM)
Hmmm... link works here...
Anyway, yeah it's an Alesis HD24 24 track hard disk based recorder. Current bid $600. If a dude had one of these to record his gigs with plus the Alesis firewire drive caddy to move the files around to a computer.... It'd be a whole heckuva lot more robust than tracking gigs with a PC.
D
PS Acronis TrueImage, Norton Ghost etc... that's the way to make sure you always have an exact duplicate of your hard drives (including the OS) available in case you need to restore a system. Acronis has saved my butt more times than I care to think about. Worth every cent...
HEy it worked the second time I tried it, outsourcing Ebay links is like that especially in forums...
ANywho, we are talking a huge price difference here, two basic PC's (80G drive, P4-2.8, 1G DDR) will run ya under $200.
PLUS, as I stated if the PC crashes, you have nothing left to use to edit/run all your software.
Right now I am getting big into this GNX4 which requires a XP PC to edit the midi functions, Supermodel amp sims, and transfer MP3's and all that is midi into it.
I will definitely get one of those holy Ghost things tho....this time around.
But what d you do with hardware FAILURE, when a drive completely freezes up, I don't think Ghost is going to restore a jammed drive? and then there is the transfer time.....of the files NEW drive?
Yeah in a perfect world, I have $ and I have toys like that laying all over the place, then I wake up D and I am staring at a 1G Windows 98SE machine...finishing a forum post.
keep shinin
jerm
Quote:
But what d you do with hardware FAILURE, when a drive completely freezes up, I don't think Ghost is going to restore a jammed drive? and then there is the transfer time.....of the files NEW drive?
You pop a new drive in, boot from the Acronis (or Ghost) CD and restore the drive image. Bang. Done. An 80GB drive? About ten minutes... and you don't have to sit and watch it. Start it up and go eat dinner or jog around the block a time or twenty...
D
Quote: (jeremysdemo @ Mar. 30 2009, 4:22 PM)
Quote: (Bubbagump @ Mar. 30 2009, 9:28 AM)
Sounds liek you are trying to be overly complicated. I wouldn't think doing this in real time would be all that great as the "master" system would have to write to disk then immediately read to keep your sync. If you really have a bug up your back side to do this, DRBD or Doubletake (is about your only option.
http://www.drbd.org/
http://www.doubletake.com/english....lt.aspx
Past that, I would sync after recording using either rsync in Cygwin (probably the fastest as it syncs only changed blocks) or PathSync from those evil dum dums who make Reaper:
http://cockos.com/pathsync/
Curious as to why you suggest an after recording sync? If both proggies are set to a snap to setting of 0 and are both started at the same time would they not finish the same?
Is there something I am missing? (insert joke about my mental capability here)
Read what I wrote... to sync two devices one MUST be the master... all clusters and systems of this sort do this to make sure that the data is consistent. So the master will write to disk and as it is committing those transactions to disk it must all read and push out to the slave system. This is a lot of I/O. Some will run in a buffered fashion like DRBD, but it is a complex system for sure and really, how paranoid are we here? I mean, let's be real, there is no take any of make that will suddenly make or break our zillion dollar record deal. Rsync would be my middle ground choice as it is very reliable, fast as all get out, and not overly complicated.
Jerm, I’d take a lead from the way the IT industry handles uptime and service delivery on, lets face it, much more critical systems than a DAW…
I suggest you look at RAID if you are concerned about drives failing, and products like Doubletake (as Bubba said) if you really need to fail-over to another box.
Or just go with Ghosting your system drive and do regular backups for your data drive - backup regimes have worked for millions of organisations and computers over the years.
Or if you really want to, look into Virtual machines - you can clone your DAW as much as you want and then copy it to any PC you want.
Or even just create a simple DR plan - a set of build instructions for your system with all the drivers etc in a safe place (not on your harddrive of course). I reckon that way you could be up and running in an hour or two if necessary.
But be aware that all these things have a impact on your hardware performance and give you much more hassle in setting up and running. Do you really want that when you are trying to record?
So my (humble) suggestion is that you just do regular backups and Ghost your system.
$0.05
Mark
Quote: (Bubbagump @ Mar. 30 2009, 10:15 PM)
Quote: (jeremysdemo @ Mar. 30 2009, 4:22 PM)
Quote: (Bubbagump @ Mar. 30 2009, 9:28 AM)
Sounds liek you are trying to be overly complicated. I wouldn't think doing this in real time would be all that great as the "master" system would have to write to disk then immediately read to keep your sync. If you really have a bug up your back side to do this, DRBD or Doubletake (is about your only option.
http://www.drbd.org/
http://www.doubletake.com/english....lt.aspx
Past that, I would sync after recording using either rsync in Cygwin (probably the fastest as it syncs only changed blocks) or PathSync from those evil dum dums who make Reaper:
http://cockos.com/pathsync/
Curious as to why you suggest an after recording sync? If both proggies are set to a snap to setting of 0 and are both started at the same time would they not finish the same?
Is there something I am missing? (insert joke about my mental capability here)
Read what I wrote... to sync two devices one MUST be the master... all clusters and systems of this sort do this to make sure that the data is consistent. So the master will write to disk and as it is committing those transactions to disk it must all read and push out to the slave system. This is a lot of I/O. Some will run in a buffered fashion like DRBD, but it is a complex system for sure and really, how paranoid are we here? I mean, let's be real, there is no take any of make that will suddenly make or break our zillion dollar record deal. Rsync would be my middle ground choice as it is very reliable, fast as all get out, and not overly complicated.
With all do respect I read what you wrote, and understand it completely.
However you did not answer the question, which was "why" one would wan to do that, not "how" to go about it.
I understand the thread title can be misleading, and I apologize for that, should have made the project goal more clear.
This has less to do with two computers being "synced" together in some sort of perfect timing (not the point really if one of them takes a crapper any sync is useless) and more to do with simultaneously recording to to computers and operating them with one mouse and the "monitoring" aspect being "synced" if that is even a term used to define such a task.
BTW, you really should think better of yourself and work bubba I have heard some of it, and you never know if your gonna have a zillion dollar take, you ever listen to The Misfits Plan 9 from outer space?
Might not be zillion dollar to some or landed them any "record deal" worth retiring on, but priceless to others, and I hear that was recorded on a 4 track, so don't sell yourself short bro.
The point being you never know when inspiration is going to strike and some of the most interesting and timeless pieces were done first take....no amount of time and $ in the studio can recreate that.
keep shinin
jerm
Quote: (Mark A @ Mar. 31 2009, 1:35 AM)
Jerm, I'd take a lead from the way the IT industry handles uptime and service delivery on, lets face it, much more critical systems than a DAW...
I suggest you look at RAID if you are concerned about drives failing, and products like Doubletake (as Bubba said) if you really need to fail-over to another box.
Or just go with Ghosting your system drive and do regular backups for your data drive - backup regimes have worked for millions of organisations and computers over the years.
Or if you really want to, look into Virtual machines - you can clone your DAW as much as you want and then copy it to any PC you want.
Or even just create a simple DR plan - a set of build instructions for your system with all the drivers etc in a safe place (not on your harddrive of course).
I reckon that way you could be up and running in an hour or two if necessary.
But be aware that all these things have a impact on your hardware performance and give you much more hassle in setting up and running.
Do you really want that when you are trying to record?
So my (humble) suggestion is that you just do regular backups and Ghost your system.
$0.05
Mark
I am certainly considering the holy "Ghost" thing.
I am still unsure, and uneducated as to how that would work, that is how you can put 80-120G of information on one disk, but I certainly am willing to try to rap my brain around it.....
I have a hard time believing it, and that it would only take 10 min to get a whole system up and running (O.S and all the prior data files) on a new drive with this "ghost" as D suggest, but like I said I am uneducated and ignorant at the moment as to how it can is possible.
Certainly something worth investigating and at the least trying to learn about even if the full logistics cannot be known by my feeble mind.
and yes I am interested in the "RAID" thing, not real sure how that works either or the benefits therein, but hopefully with a bit of luck and the almighty google all the things will become transparent.
keep shinin
jerm