need a DI box for guitar input?
Right now I’m running a DI box and a headphone amp. I’d like to streamline my setup and just have a mixer, but I’m not sure whether a mixer will output a signal strong enough to drive my soundcard and effects. Anyone know of a small, quiet and quality mixer that will do this? Thanks
generally, you need a direct box if you want to plug an instrument into a mixer channel input. for example bass -> DI -> mixer input. however, there are mixers out there that will have an instrument input channel… i have an onyx series mixer and the first two inputs have a switch you press when you want to plug an instrument directly into it. if you plug your instrument right into a standard mixer input it will probably sound odd… usually weak and the tone is crap.
http://www.mackie.com/products/onyx1220/
has two switchable instrument inputs. this mixer may not be what you’re looking for, but just as an example. i have the onyx 1620.
A mixer will drive a strong enough signal for your soundcard’s inputs, in general. Note, however, that some soundcards are nominal +4dBu, while others are -10dBV, and ditto for mixers. That’s roughly a 12dB difference, which is a 4-to-1 voltage level difference. HOWEVER, you can usually work around this. More on it below.
I assume you’re talking about passive electric guitar pickups, that you’re using a DI box for. If that’s the case, you usually can’t plug it into a normal line level input and get good result.
However, on most mixer channels with mike preamps, the 1/4" inputs often labeled “Line” aren’t really typical line inputs – they’re not the same as other line inputs on the mixer. (Just read the specs and you’ll see they’re rated differently.) In most cases, these mixer channels have “trim” or “gain” knobs. If adjusting this knob affects the level for something plugged into the 1/4" input (which is typically the case), then most likely it’ll work just fine.
In other words, try it. It probably will work, and it won’t harm anything if it doesn’t.
You can tell whether it works or not by watching n-Track’s recording meters. If you can drive them to the top, you’re good. For this test, set all faders that affect the signal to 0dB (not OFF, but to “unity gain” setting where it doesn’t change the volume) and adjust the “trim” or “gain” knob. You may also need to adjust the record level for your soundcard. If you adjust both, better to set them both toward the middle than to set one really low and the other really high. If your mixer has any meters in the signal chain, you want to drive that to +6dB or +9dB (or just below peaking) when n-Track’s recording meter is nearly up to 0dB (the top, just below clipping).
Dimmer has it.
A passive guitar pickup has an o/p impedance of typically one or two hundred Kohm.
The normal line-in on a mixer has an i/p impedance typically much lower, 10K - 50K
So even though your levels are sorta compatible, you have an impedance mismatch. The rule of thumb for signal transfer is; you want the load impedance to be approximately 10 times bigger than the source impedance.
So for a guitar, you’re really looking to feed into an impedance of about 1 Mohm, but no lower than about a few hundred K. So use a DI box or stomp box.
Otherwise as Dimmer says, it risks sounding thin and weak. That’s because impedance not only affects levels (which was well addressed by Jeff), but also affects frequency response and “damping” too.
Ali
Use a DI. They’re cheap ($20-25), you’ll use it all the time both live and in the studio, and you won’t have to worry about any of this stuff. Perfectly matched signals every time! I use a DI on my sampler, AC/El guitar, keyboard, bass… (Man, we should have a DI infomercial…) You already have one, might as well use it. As for a mixer, the lower cost Spirit (E Series) and Yamaha (MG series) mixers are swell.
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| Use a DI. They’re cheap ($20-25), you’ll use it all the time both live and in the studio, and you won’t have to worry about any of this stuff. Perfectly matched signals every time! |
Very true Bubba.
And understanding and knowing how to use Ohm’s Law, gain structure, impedance, etc., may not make anyone into a better recording engineer.
But sure as hel l, it won’t make anyone into a worse one.
Ali
I find that my guitar effects procesor raises the line-out to the appropriate impedence to go into my mixer. No probs from the mixer to soundcard
Another handy thing about a DI box is it lets you record a dry signal for re-amping later.
I plug into a DI box, feed the blanaced XLR output straight to a line in on my soundcard, then also have the “Direct Link” out (which is basically a thru) go to an amp so I can use the to monitor my guitar whilst recording the dry signal from the balanced out.
Will usually record the amp at the same time as if I don’t like it later can just delete the track.
But once you have a dry signal you can re-amp it however you want with amp sim plugins, or out of your soundcard, to outboard gear or a guitar amp and back into your soundcard.
So much more versatile than being stuck with the amp recorded and deciding later that you didn’t like it.
Or you can clone the track and send one to an overdriven amp and another to a cleaner amp and blend them.
Lots of posibilities when you have the dry signall to play with…
Rich
I’ve owned a behringer DI box for a few years and never figured out what I should use it for. I’ve recently read that it could be useful in recording bass guitar.
Would putting the bass through the BI box and then the soundcard be better/worse/same as:
– going directly into my Layla 20 bit interface/soundcard
–going through my ART Tube preamp
–going through my behringer mixer and then to the Layla?
| Quote (soul&folk @ Aug. 09 2005,15:58) |
| I’ve owned a behringer DI box for a few years and never figured out what I should use it for. I’ve recently read that it could be useful in recording bass guitar. Would putting the bass through the BI box and then the soundcard be better/worse/same as: – going directly into my Layla 20 bit interface/soundcard –going through my ART Tube preamp –going through my behringer mixer and then to the Layla? |
Direct injection of the bass gives you a 60 dB boost via the board pres.
This is commonly done recording bass guitar.
Lots of guys also mic the amp and blend the two to suit.
so are you saying that I should try
Bass–> DI --> mixer --> soundcard?
Is that better or just different to what I’m currently doing which is
Bass–> ART tube preamp --> soundcard
Well, it all depends on if the ART is doing a line match for you. I kind of think it might be. Read the docs and see. In that case, it would just be different but both would be doing the same thing just getting different sounds perhaps.
| Quote (Tom Hicks @ Aug. 09 2005,16:22) |
| Lots of guys also mic the amp and blend the two to suit. |
I do that. The DI gives it presence, the mic tends to give tone.
| Quote (soul&folk @ Aug. 09 2005,16:32) |
| so are you saying that I should try Bass--> DI --> mixer --> soundcard? Is that better or just different to what I'm currently doing which is Bass--> ART tube preamp --> soundcard |
I use me ART Tube MP for a DI on occasion.
From ART's website:
While its primary application is to be used with a microphone, the Tube MP is an exceptional direct box - impedance matching, amplifying and improving the sound of any instrument plugged into it.
So yeah, impedance matching is part of the equation. The TOOB can add color as well.
TG
Thanks for doing my HW. I was happy with my bass sound, just checking…
of course, I would love to hear how it would sound with a sansamp, I heard those are the best for many applications, both recording and live.
The mixed DI and mic method is swell. ( I have been using a kick drum mic lately and it is the bomb-diggity.) If you already have a bass amp, try the mic/DI before buying a SansAmp.
Let me know where you are playing…I’ll come and check you out.
| Quote (syn707 @ Aug. 10 2005,01:16) |
| Let me know where you are playing...I'll come and check you out. |
Who are you talking to?
yeah I was wondering the same thing.