HEy all,
I am trying to pan a midi track inside Ntrack.
As with any track I moved the fader knob all the way to the left.
The thing is when I play the midi track through a midi drum machine there is a signal all be it faint going out to the right side…
Was just wondering if I am going about this wrong and if there is another way to insure a midi tracks is only on one side of a stereo signal.
keep shinin
jerm 
Look at the track data in event list view. (n has event list view don’t it?) There should be a MIDI CC #8 event that needs set to “0” for full left. “64” is center and “127” is fully right. MIDI CC #8 is the “coarse” adjustment and almost every MIDI spec capable device will respond to MIDI CC #8. Oddly enough CC #8 is called “balance” in the MIDI spec. MIDI CC #10 is “Pan” and uses the same values. “64” = center, “0” full left, “127” full right.
CC’s 40 and 42 are also implemented but seldom used. They are; 40 = Balance (fine adjust) and 42 = Pan (fine adjust). These are 14-bit resolution values with 16,384 possible positions, 0x0000 to 0x3FFF where 0x2000 is center position, 0x0000 is hard left, and 0x3FFF is hard right. Sound confusing? Yes, it does! 
Most devices won’t use 40 and 42…
D
Information like this is the reason I can’t use midi
This is where someone who uses midi says. “It’s easier than it sounds.”
Quote: (Poppa Willis @ May 02 2009, 12:09 PM)
This is where someone who uses midi says. "It's easier than it sounds."
D
Hey guys thanx for the info,
I run into one unanticipated problem with that tho.
The device I am using to play the drums also incorporates CC events to change patches/FX for another device, I am piggy backing the CC events on the drum track since it only plays one midi file at a time.
When I put in an event on channel 8 that triggers the wah to come on at the beginning of the song, great if it is a Frampton cover…
(more on that in other thread)
So if this is where I am supposed to do it (looking at poppas screen shot) I may be out of options.
I noticed “velocity” hits come up on the track and do not trigger CC events that change FX, is it possible to do it in there instead of in “0 bank change” area?
Also I notice two faders, one for the track and one “master” I am wondering if I should try pushing that one to the extreme right as well…it is interesting that a track can be panned dead right and still send sound to the left…don’t cha think?
There is something else going on here with this device, I am thinking it only plays midi tracks in mono…?
BTW I am using Midi 0 format to save them into the device if that gives anyone a clue as to what is happening.
keep shinin
jerm
I may have fingered something out that gives me more options than I knew I had.
Apparently I got it wrong when I said the device only plays one midi track at a time…it only plays one midi file at a time but that file can contain multiple tracks.
I just loaded a drum track into it that consisted of 8 tracks of midi and it played them.
Not real sure how this is going to effect the whole CC events thing…or which track the device is going to accept the commands from…or all of them? eek…that can get messy.
keep shinin
jerm
Midi CC events are channel independent - aren’t they?
This is where track and channel become distinct. You can have several ‘tracks of drums’, say tracks 1-4, but they must output on MIDI channel 10. Don’t confuse tracks with channels. The CC info that you want to control effects probably must be on a particular channel. Find out which one - and use that channel exclusively for effects changes. And don’t put other midi (instruments) on that channel.
Quote:
When I put in an event on channel 8 that triggers the wah to come on at the beginning of the song, great if it is a Frampton cover....
(more on that in other thread)
*sigh*
Is the manual for the GNX4 online somewhere Jerm? If I can find it, I'll have a look. I still think you are a bit confused about this MIDI thing. Let's take drums for an example. Normally, and according the "standard" General MIDI spec, drums are usually on MIDI Channel 10. Let's say you want your drums on the left...
Sorry that's not n. It's the Event list editor in Reap. This should get you going though. Make sure the MIDI instrument channel in question has a CC (Continuous Controller) Message sending "0" on CC #10.
If you have a piano on MIDI channel 3, the same applies. If put a CC #10 sending "127" the piano will playback panned full right.
Remember, MIDI CHANNELS (1 through 16) usually correspond to an instrument. i.e. 3-piano, 10-drums etc... Within those channels, a CC message can control pan, velocity etc...
D
In the screen cap up there… Err… back there < (Previous page) I have a short drum loop playing kick and snare. The first “event” tells the instrument, in this case a Roland Virtual Sound Canvas to pan the following notes which are also “events” all the way left. You can see that I am sending it on Channel 10, the type is CC and the value is ZERO.
That help?
D
Oh… one more thing. The pan will stay left for that instrument on channel 10 UNTIL another CC #10 message changes the value.
The same thing is possible, or should be possible, using the piano roll editor as in Poppa’s screen cap. Just draw it in on the first event. It might be hard to tell if you have “drawn in” ZERO though since it’s all the way at the bottom. Your problem may be that it LOOKS like you have CC #10 drawn to zero when in reality it’s 3 or 5 or summat. That’s why I suggested the event editor. You can explicitly type in the value.
D
Ok will try that,
I don’t know how I messed that up the first time, 0 does not trigger any FX changes…I think it was like you said trying to get a zero on the CC graph probably was a 2-3? as low as I could limbo!
I am going to go into the “event” list and see what can be done.
THanx once again for bearing with me.
keep shinin
jerm
Quote:
The device I am using to play the drums also incorporates CC events to change patches/FX for another device, I am piggy backing the CC events on the drum track since it only plays one midi file at a time.
When I put in an event on channel 8 that triggers the wah to come on at the beginning of the song, great if it is a Frampton cover.... (more on that in other thread)
So if this is where I am supposed to do it (looking at poppas screen shot) I may be out of options.
I noticed "velocity" hits come up on the track and do not trigger CC events that change FX, is it possible to do it in there instead of in "0 bank change" area?
Are you using GNX4's drum patch/fx in conjunction with regular guitar effects changes?
The CC#'s for the 'drum patch/FX select' would probably have to go on Channel 10, (remember that CC data will not be translated to note data) while the guitar effects changes would go on a seperate midi track set to a Channel other than 10. I think (from reading your posts over at the other forum) maybe Channel 16. These of course can be incorporated into a single 'Type 0 MIDI file'. And I also see you were able to combine many drum track 'songs' into one midi file as well. So as soon as you sync up the guitar effects changes with that file,(your drum patch/FX) you can actually start playing. Sounds pretty cool.
Also remember that editing in the event list when you have a TYPE 0 MIDI file is a little difficult because all the channel data is combined.
Quote: (sevenOfeleven @ May 02 2009, 7:27 PM)
Quote:
The device I am using to play the drums also incorporates CC events to change patches/FX for another device, I am piggy backing the CC events on the drum track since it only plays one midi file at a time.
When I put in an event on channel 8 that triggers the wah to come on at the beginning of the song, great if it is a Frampton cover....
(more on that in other thread)
So if this is where I am supposed to do it (looking at poppas screen shot) I may be out of options.
I noticed "velocity" hits come up on the track and do not trigger CC events that change FX, is it possible to do it in there instead of in "0 bank change" area?
Are you using GNX4's drum patch/fx in conjunction with regular guitar effects changes?
The CC#'s for the 'drum patch/FX select' would probably have to go on Channel 10, (remember that CC data will not be translated to note data) while the guitar effects changes would go on a seperate midi track set to a Channel other than 10. I think (from reading your posts over at the other forum) maybe Channel 16. These of course can be incorporated into a single 'Type 0 MIDI file'. And I also see you were able to combine many drum track 'songs' into one midi file as well. So as soon as you sync up the guitar effects changes with that file,(your drum patch/FX) you can actually start playing. Sounds pretty cool.
Also remember that editing in the event list when you have a TYPE 0 MIDI file is a little difficult because all the channel data is combined.
I see the Type 0 events are combined....that is making it hard, I do not have to start with a Midi 0 file tho...it just needs to be saved that way into the GNX4.
I tried what D said, I put a CC event "Pan" in the vent list I tried both 0 and 127 and both times it did not work.
I am noticing something different in my view of the event list in both Ntrack and Protracks.
In D's event list next to "pan' there is no number value, only in one of the columns.
In my event list there is a value in both columns.
00:000:00:00
and 00:01:00:00 something like that anyway.
They are similar to the numbers that come up inside Sonar like Ntracks timeline box.
Quote:
Are you using GNX4's drum patch/fx in conjunction with regular guitar effects changes?
I am not really sure, what I do is put the midi drum file into the GNX4 (this is a whole song file with all the trimmings) and the GNX4 plays it through whatever kit I choose when I set up the song....
This seems to save space for other wav's in the song.
I do see what you saying and I just figured that out today that you could have more than one midi track in a file and it will play it.
Before I was piggy backing all the CC FX changes on the drum midi file (when I was using a drum midi file)
WHen you do use a drum midi file it gives you more options, you can have another beat recorded as a wave and use it to "break down" if you want to just turn the midi playback off...
ALso, you have a third option during a song to use one of the on board beats, so you can switch between three different beats at any given time hand free, and without loosing a beat...it's tricky tho....
I am hard wiring a outsource pedal (an old Ibanez thrash pedal)into the recorder to turn tracks on and off during a song which will give me even more control on stage.
Things are comming along smoothly...
Once I got all the sf2's I needed I was able to set up quiet a few tracks for covers.
I am still loving midi so far and just making the best with the limited knowledge I have for now...if I can't do it in midi I just mix down to wav and work it from there....
I'm telling you tho, I think this device only plays MIDI tracks in mono! the wav tracks are mono, but you can pan them inside the player!
which stinks for sound routing.....seems to be a design flaw if you ask me.
keep shinin
jerm
Ok, just to make everyone who knows how/understands Midi go "humph!"
As I have mentioned, Midi is an unknown to me and from time to time I try to use it in N-Track and end up giving up - so, with that positive attitude . . .
Why can’t the track program controls (pan, volume, solo, mute, even envelopes) be made to work with the midi track the way they work with audio?
When I use PowerTracks ( a Midi sequencer) the controls effect what I hear right from the mixer. I can’t tell if it is my hardware (MOTU firewire) or n_track that causes this limitation.
Also, I can get sound by selecting the FonteDXI, but Roland VST/DXI (which works in PowerTracks and other PGMusic programs using the Redirect midi out feature) will not produce sound in n_Track (for me) and I don’t know why.
Do I have a problem with my setup, or are these know limitations for n-Track?
Bax
Quote: (bax3 @ May 03 2009, 10:11 AM)
Ok, just to make everyone who knows how/understands Midi go "humph!"
As I have mentioned, Midi is an unknown to me and from time to time I try to use it in N-Track and end up giving up - so, with that positive attitude . . .
Why can't the track program controls (pan, volume, solo, mute, even envelopes) be made to work with the midi track the way they work with audio?
When I use PowerTracks ( a Midi sequencer) the controls effect what I hear right from the mixer.
I can't tell if it is my hardware (MOTU firewire) or n_track that causes this limitation.
Also, I can get sound by selecting the FonteDXI, but Roland VST/DXI (which works in PowerTracks and other PGMusic programs using the Redirect midi out feature) will not produce sound in n_Track (for me) and I don't know why.
Do I have a problem with my setup, or are these know limitations for n-Track?
Bax
It sounds like configuration problems to me.
It happens to me every now and then in Ntrack too...
That is because I am using THREE different sounds cards, one is an M-audio Firewire interface the other is the GNX4 Midi/in/out and the onboard Realtek card in my computer.
In some programs (like Sonar LE)it is set up to use the onboard soundcard which works great for midi.
However, in my Ntrack I have that set to use the M-audio interface, so it does not play midi files directly...unless I set it up to use the on board card., (which is a pain in the arse since I have to set it right back to record quality wav.'s)
The way I got around this was using sf2 files instead of midi banks I am playing them through a VST.
Basically I can now use my M-adio firewire to play midi files through the VST that plays various sf2 sounds you can swoop off the net.
I have a whole bunch of midi sounds Roland etc etc that came from various softwares thru the years, and they all play great in Sonar LE, but for the life of me I have no idea how to mix them down to a wav. (not real familiar with Sonar)
So VST, and sf2 seems to be the way to go.
I will see if I can find the plug in for you....and leave you a link to a huge database of sf2 files you can use in Ntrack!
I try not to blame anything on Ntrack it has served me well, and 9 times out of ten it is user ignorance that is the problem.
keep shinin
jerm
Thanks, I am a devoted n_Track user. However, I have maintained for sometime that Midi should be more intuitive.
Of course, maybe my intuitive does not work properly, and the program works fine with midi. If someone wants to come to my house and set the machinary up properly . . . 
Bax
It’s always a trade-off with these things Bax… or it seems so to me. PowerTracks Pro is a GREAT MIDI tool but I HATE the audio handling/editing capabilities. n-Track, Reaper etc… handle audio very gracefully but MIDI is usually not as graceful. So I keep more than one tool in the box.
The Roland Virtual Sound Canvas should work well in n-Track. The DXi version is usually much better than the VST version. The VST version introduces too much latency for my liking. The DXi as much quicker. They sound identical, so I use the DXi version in PTPro, Reaper etc and it works well. I can’t remember, but I think I used the Roland DXi with n-Track a long time ago and it was fine.
MIDI? You just need to grok about with it. You’ll get the hang of it.
D