Perhaps the best way to understand what MIDI is to first understand what it is not:
* MIDI isn’t music
* MIDI doesn’t contain any actual sounds
* MIDI isn’t a digital music file format like MP3 or WAV
MIDI is nothing more than data – a set of instructions. MIDI data contains a list of events or messages that tell an electronic device (VST instrument, computer sound card, etc.) how to generate a certain sound.
How MIDI Works
J, I seem to remember from my early days with SoundBlaster cards (bought on recommendation of people in this forum, AaMoF), that you could use a program they included to change the default system soundfonts, but I do not think I ever saw any other card which could do that. IOW, the answer to your first question is no. The other half of the answer is that using SFZ, or most any other soundfont player vsti, is so neat and easy - here’s a 1 2 3 for you: import midi file to new track, open properties box for that track, set output to new instrument (either SFZ, SOUNDFONT-player, or any other sound generator), pick out the soundfont that matches what you are trying to play, i.e., drums, bass trumpet, whatever, in the player’s dialog box, then press play. (This is in ntrack, of course…) You should hear music, or drums, whatever the file is supposed to play…
Good luck!
'til next time;
Tony W
That midi disasembler’s very cool , 7-11,
I’ll have to try that.
I have some MIDI files that have the kick drum on the wrong note for NTD to play.
I’ve been moving them as needed using the select and drag method I mentioned in my first reply to you.
Of course, I could also change the note in NTD to play the General MIDI note in the files. Change either the horse or the cart!
Keep on trackin’!!
Don
Jerm -
I think I see what you are trying to do.
You want to use your own midi files to play back the drum kits on the GNX4. This may be the issue you are confronting. The GNX4 contains GM drumkits - several of them. Now here is what happens. Your MIDI file that you got off the net or where ever has to follow the GM standard - that is it must be type0 (all instruments on one channel) that channel is 10. That’s the first thing. The GNX recieves (midi) note on/off data on channel 10. The different kits contained inside the GNX4 ARE the different ‘banks’ you are refering to. But you have to switch these banks using the footswitches. In the manual I did not see a way of doing it with a MIDI controller message, (which would be nice).Now normally if you play back a MIDI file on ch 10 (and you have either MS GS wavetable synth, or your sound cards synth) there is only one ‘patch map’ or ‘bank’ that corresponds to a set of wave files that comprise that ‘patch map’ or ‘bank’. Imagine that you only have one complete drum kit.
So no matter what, when your midi file sends note/on C36, you are are going to hear a
kick drum sound. Just that one kick drum sound from just that one kit.
now suppose you want that same note/on C36 to trigger a kick drum, but from a different kit - say on Rogers. Well that would be like selecting another drum kit from your GNX4. It does the ‘bank switching’ and substitutes a different .wav sample for that C36 midi event. As far as I can tell - You will not be able to alter the samples used for the kits that are contained in the GNX4. They are not very clear in the manual about how they implement their midi drum kits. But you can think of each kit as a ‘bank’, and the midi file you send to the GNX4 (if it is GM type0 ch-10) will sound different as you cycle thru the different kits.
But again, I do not believe you can change the individual samples used in each kit,
unless there is some software utility that comes with the GNX4.
It’s turned into quite a drama ain’t it!
Quote: (Poppa Willis @ Feb. 23 2009, 7:38 AM)
Jerm you need to do some reading on midi and what it is and how it works.
No kidding bub,
But ya know some people already know a good deal about midi, some of them are even here, and some of them are even gracious enough to share what they know and answer simple questions like the ones I have recently asked about loading midi banks into a place they can be accessed within Ntrack, it's really not a "midi" question about how "midi" works but about where to put files for Ntrack to access them when playing midi tracks.
Honestly I don't understand why people would go through all the trouble of creating these midi banks of sample for various instruments if there is no way to use them outside of a VST, I am sure midi banks existed before VST and that there are people still alive that know how to use them and can load them into places they would be accessible within Ntrack.
Perhaps not, perhaps it is like the typewriter and when keyboards, computers and printers came out they stopped making the ribbons, perhaps midi banks went the way of the dinosaur so either you use the ones that come with your sound card or find a VST, just wish someone would tell all those people who still have midi banks posted on the net they can save the bandwidth and take them down.
keep shinin
jerm
Quote: (wynot @ Feb. 23 2009, 8:22 AM)
J, I seem to remember from my early days with SoundBlaster cards (bought on recommendation of people in this forum, AaMoF), that you could use a program they included to change the default system soundfonts, but I do not think I ever saw any other card which could do that. IOW, the answer to your first question is no. The other half of the answer is that using SFZ, or most any other soundfont player vsti, is so neat and easy - here's a 1 2 3 for you: import midi file to new track, open properties box for that track, set output to new instrument (either SFZ, SOUNDFONT-player, or any other sound generator), pick out the soundfont that matches what you are trying to play, i.e., drums, bass trumpet, whatever, in the player's dialog box, then press play. (This is in ntrack, of course...) You should hear music, or drums, whatever the file is supposed to play...
Good luck!
'til next time;
Tony W
Thanks for the tip I will certainly try that method, I am curious to how it would work with a midi drum track that is already consolidated, that is it has all of the instruments on one line, how would the VST know which parts to substitute if I simply chose one "sound" in the SFZ?
That was why I wanted to load a new drum "bank" with various drums sound in it into a place Ntrack could access it via the events folder, like one of the 127 ones that show up.
I don't mind programing each hit to a new instrument sound in the events list, just have no way to get the new bank in there as an option.
I think the solution you presented is going to work just fine for bass tracks (which I do need to do as well) and for drum tracks that have each part on it's own track.
keep shinin
jerm
Quote: (sevenOfeleven @ Feb. 23 2009, 2:10 PM)
Jerm -
I think I see what you are trying to do.
You want to use your own midi files to play back the drum kits on the GNX4. This may be the issue you are confronting. The GNX4 contains GM drumkits - several of them. Now here is what happens. Your MIDI file that you got off the net or where ever has to follow the GM standard - that is it must be type0 (all instruments on one channel) that channel is 10. That's the first thing. The GNX recieves (midi) note on/off data on channel 10. The different kits contained inside the GNX4 ARE the different 'banks' you are refering to. But you have to switch these banks using the footswitches. In the manual I did not see a way of doing it with a MIDI controller message, (which would be nice).Now normally if you play back a MIDI file on ch 10 (and you have either MS GS wavetable synth, or your sound cards synth) there is only one 'patch map' or 'bank' that corresponds to a set of wave files that comprise that 'patch map' or 'bank'. Imagine that you only have one complete drum kit.
So no matter what, when your midi file sends note/on C36, you are are going to hear a
kick drum sound. Just that one kick drum sound from just that one kit.
now suppose you want that same note/on C36 to trigger a kick drum, but from a different kit - say on Rogers. Well that would be like selecting another drum kit from your GNX4. It does the 'bank switching' and substitutes a different .wav sample for that C36 midi event. As far as I can tell - You will not be able to alter the samples used for the kits that are contained in the GNX4. They are not very clear in the manual about how they implement their midi drum kits. But you can think of each kit as a 'bank', and the midi file you send to the GNX4 (if it is GM type0 ch-10) will sound different as you cycle thru the different kits.
But again, I do not believe you can change the individual samples used in each kit,
unless there is some software utility that comes with the GNX4.
appreciate the well thought out and detailed post.
However I hate to disappoint but I am not involving the GNX4 in this although you certainly have opened up an interesting can of worms if I ever do get that far.
Strictly working with pre-programed midi files of various songs already in existence (cover tunes) and trying to change the sounds that are being automatically produced by these midi files.
I then mix them down to a wav. then convert to MP3 and play them in the GNX4.
It is mostly bass and drums (but a few keys as well) since I play the guitar and sing (so those tracks are just muted in the mixdowns).
keep shinin
jerm
Quote:
No kidding bub,
But ya know some people already know a good deal about midi, some of them are even here, and some of them are even gracious enough to share what they know and answer simple questions like the ones I have recently asked about loading midi banks into a place they can be accessed within Ntrack, it's really not a "midi" question about how "midi" works but about where to put files for Ntrack to access them when playing midi tracks.
That's exactly why I posted what I did - You seem to have an "I know that" attitude, and terms you use in your post tell a different story. It would be nice if you could grasp an understanding of midi then ask intelligent questions. Geeze - I've never EVER not tried to answer anyone's questions - but you're makin' it harder than it has to be.
Thx all!
Hey 7’0, I thought that’s what you where up to. Darn now I have to go to the panio roll.
lol
Thx PW, as usual your always on it!
Rabbitt, mucho for pointing!
Hey Deader, I would love to hear your personal take on that, with a version of your music.
Got a link to your theme song? 
Quote: (Poppa Willis @ Feb. 23 2009, 8:03 AM)
MIDI is nothing more than data -- a set of instructions. MIDI data contains a list of events or messages that tell an electronic device (VST instrument, computer sound card, etc.) how to generate a certain sound.
How MIDI Works
* MIDI isn't music
I never said it was.
* MIDI doesn't contain any actual sounds
I never said it did.
* MIDI isn't a digital music file format like MP3 or WAV
We have been over this in previous thread, although I may have thought that at one time we are way past that, that was weeks ago this is now.
Quote:
. It would be nice if you could grasp an understanding of midi then ask intelligent questions. Geeze - I've never EVER not tried to answer anyone's questions - but you're makin' it harder than it has to be.
Good then answer the original question from post#15 pg.2 :
Quote:
I have found plenty of real drum midi banks on the net, just have no idea where to put them so that I can access them inside of Ntracks.
Or at the least explain to me why it is too unintelligibly worded for you to bother, like explain to me why the creator of a midi bank would claim it has various real drum samples in it (which the 62MG size of the file seems to suggest) and what is there instead of sounds, then I can ask questions regarding the use of that file instead.
I think I am going to take a break from this forum for a while, I asked a simple question about how to do something inside Ntrack involving midi (about how to load midi banks to a place accessible to the sound card and Ntrack editor) and got a go read a midi book lecture instead.
Perhaps I will go lurk around the ProTracks or Reaper forum, since I own both of those, and see if anyone there knows how and where to load these midi banks into a place usable in their editors.
I am sure they are not just making all these midi banks just to say they have created something with no use or purpose that can't be accessed in an editor using midi tracks to trigger them.
keep shinin'
jerm
First of all - you don’t place them in n anywhere - you OPEN them from n. Just like any file. Whether it be a soundfont through a soundfont player or a sample THROUGH a SYNTH, or Virtual instrument THROUGH a VSTi. You place them in a folder anywhere in your computer, and open them.
I won’t offer advice to people who won’t listen, and you obviously didn’t read the link that I took the What MIDI isn’t info from. Why you so combative? I’ve sat here for 4 pages, and watched everyone try to help you and it’s like you don’t listen. Go pray it out or somethin’ - sheesh!
I’ll go find post # 15 now.
Quote:
I have found plenty of real drum midi banks on the net, just have no idea where to put them so that I can access them inside of Ntracks.
There is technically no such thing as a real drum midi bank. You can use midi to play real drum samples but it requires a working knowledge of midi and the VSTi or “player” to do so. That’s why there are a ton of very good drum programs based on midi and real samples.
That’s my answer - there are others.
Quote:
drum midi banks
Link me to some Jerm. So's I can see exactly what you're talking about?
"Bank" can have a couple of different meanings I suppose. Gimme an example of what you're referring to and we'll see whut is whut eh?
D
Just click on File, scroll down to Import MIDI File, then right click on the newly imported MIDI file, and scroll down to Output to and choose whatever drum instrument you have available.
Quote:
I won't offer advice to people who won't listen, and you obviously didn't read the link that I took the What MIDI isn't info from. Why you so combative? I've sat here for 4 pages, and watched everyone try to help you and it's like you don't listen. Go pray it out or somethin' - sheesh!
and watched everyone try to help you and it's like you don't listen.
I thanked those whom did reply, and told them I will try later to do all the things they have said with VST's.
They did not however answer my original question about midi banks, you may have been the first with the below quote, which is the only reason why I posted in this thread titled "Ntrack Drums" in the first place.
Quote:
First of all - you don't place them in n anywhere - you OPEN them from n. Just like any file. Whether it be a soundfont through a soundfont player or a sample THROUGH a SYNTH, or Virtual instrument THROUGH a VSTi. You place them in a folder anywhere in your computer, and open them.
When I downloaded the midi banks they were in a zip. file.
During the unzip process WinZip ask you the destination folder to put the files in.
Obviously not knowing too much about midi I assumed they needed to be in a place similar to where we send VST or DirectX plugs for Ntrack or at the least an area where the sound files midi does trigger through Midi Mapper are held.
That is where I was stuck for three days now, sitting on a bunch of files called "midi banks" by their creators with no idea of where to put them when I unzip them.
So thank you, you have solved the great mystery for me, put them anywhere, why did I not think of that.
So now the next logical step seems to be how to open them in Ntrack (since I will know where they are, anywhere/folder)
Quote:
I have found plenty of real drum midi banks on the net, just have no idea where to put them so that I can access them inside of Ntracks.
There is technically no such thing as a real drum midi bank. You can use midi to play real drum samples but it requires a working knowledge of midi and the VSTi or "player" to do so. That's why there are a ton of very good drum programs based on midi and real samples.
That's my answer - there are others.
I think you have pointed out an obvious misuse of terminology, once again thank you.
I now notice when went back to the place I got what I thought was an Ibanez bass "midi bank" I found it is a "Soundfont bank" instead. the page was confusing since it says "Midi" directly above the listing.
I agree, now that I can call the file a "soundfont bank" and that will be understood by an intelligent person and unzip it to where ever I want, all I need now is to know how to "OPEN them from n".
I will make one last attempt to explain what I am trying to do inside Ntrack and hopefully I can at least muster up a sentence or two with enough correct phrases and terminologies to explain the situation well enough for another to be able read it comprehend it and formulate a possible solution for me.
1.) I already have midi files with tracks marked "drums" by their creators for various cover songs.
2.) These files are not separated, that is the snare,hi-hat, kick, toms, and cymbals, are all in the same track.
3.) When I open up the event list I can select particular notes and change what instrument is being played at that instant of time.
4.) I want to "OPEN my new samples from N" in these already programmed drum files.
People have suggested using a VST's to do this which I am going to try, and which does sound like it will work for single instrument (note) tracks.(like bass, or isolated drum parts on their own track)
I am not so sure it will work for the midi drum tracks (multiple parts sequenced) I have so I am asking for another possible solution.
I was hoping there would be a way to open the events list switch channels or something and change the individual notes to sounds not currently in there.
Again Poppa I apologize for being short with you and agree with everything you and others here have said, I have a lot to learn about midi and I am just getting started, and I am loving it!
I have over 300 songs now in my arsenal of cover tunes and learning the individual lead and rhythm tracks is a snap when someone else already took the time to sequences them, honestly this is an awesome tool and I wish I would have began using it decades ago.
I repent of the whole Pro-tools and Reaper forum comment as well, I love you guys and acknowledge there are those here who have been with me for nearly a decade now through thick and thin and have always done their best to help me.
keep shinin
jerm
Quote: (DEAD CERTAIN @ Feb. 23 2009, 7:05 PM)
Quote:
drum midi banks
Link me to some Jerm. So's I can see exactly what you're talking about?
"Bank" can have a couple of different meanings I suppose. Gimme an example of what you're referring to and we'll see whut is whut eh?
D
Yep,
I left a link in my last post to one of them, and it does not look like "midi bank" was accurate description.
Sorry.
I have also attempted to lay out my problem more clearly.
keep shinin
jerm
Quote: (kevinmyers @ Feb. 23 2009, 7:09 PM)
Just click on File, scroll down to Import MIDI File, then right click on the newly imported MIDI file, and scroll down to Output to and choose whatever drum instrument you have available.
That all sounds proper.
And I wish it was that simple, perhaps it is and I am missing something. the files (drum track) are already in Ntrack only they are in ONE track, every part of the drums (what I would call a mixdown, if there is such a thing in midi) and the sounds coming out are not so hot, I mean they are OK if you are playing Phil Collins "Air of the Night", but not so good for Pantera's "Walk".
keep shinin
jerm
Quote:
Hey 7'0, I thought that's what you where up to
Man - In a nutshell I'm going EZ => GM midimap.
I am taking what EZ calls it's 'articulations' which are non-GM (i.e ride cymbal on C7 -which is non-GM) and mapping it to GM C#52.
But what is sweet is I really don't have to follow the GM standard when I use nTrack drums. So I can make my own custom map.
On a side note - D?
You think Jerm is really talking about sf2 files? Or maybe he got a hold of bank files for a particular hardware/software that will only work with what it was designed for. There were a lot of those around. For example I have a Guillemont ISIS Pro card that
can use .94b soundbanks. And there are plenty of them out there. And they sound pretty good. But you can only use them if your soundcard software supports it. And I don't know of any current ones that do. I'll bet that's it.