sorry guys - another newbie question
Thanks to Poppa Willis for the link to the mp3 converter.
n-Track is mixing down a nice guitar-only wav file but I can’t figure out how to get the midi tracks (3 of them) converted to audio so that the mixdown can include the bass/drums and synth in my final output.
I looked through several topics in the docs and all I can get out of it is that I need to record the midi - to produce wave files.
I have tried to do this by selecting my souncard as teh input for recording (as opposed to my audio interface when recording the guitar). Those are the only two inputs available under the audio settings in windows.
I think the docs said that I should select the software synthesizer for my input device (to record the midi tracks to audio), but I don’t see this. Have I botched up my installation and removed teh Roland sound canvas? I don’t have any trouble playing midi tracks, just recording them.
BTW - the source of the midi files is band0in-a-box if that is important.
Thanks again
There’s a bunch of MIDI Freaks around this Board…
Many of them use Editors outside of n-Track…
I’ve only used n-Track for recording analogue tracks…
If you wait long enough you’ll maybe get one of these souls to reply to your thread…
Try not to hold your breath too long.
You might turn blue…
Bill…
I have used very little midi - I thought there was a midi mixdown wizard when you went to file mixdown. Did you do that?
just one time the wizard popped up and at that point, I had no converter (codec) installed so I followed the dialogs to fasoft and found the dll wasn’t there…
Maybe it will come up again if I make a new project out of it (import my audio and midi tracks etc.)
I’ll give it a try tonight.
A couple thoughts for you…
BIAB can convert the MIDI to .WAV if you are using a soft synth like the Roland VSC. Then all you do is import the .WAV files into n-Track.
Depending on which version of n-Track you have, you can “Freeze” the MIDI tracks. “Freeze” will work if the playback “device” is a softsynth VSTi or DXi. Just do a Freeze and n will disable the softsynth to save CPU cycles. If you need the individual .WAV files for some reason, note the name given when they are frozen, go to the project folder and copy them if you want.
This is yet another area of n-Track that needs some improvement. In “that other” DAW I use, you just right-click the track and “Apply FX as new take”. Zing. Done. Easy as pie.
Worst case; You are using the very, very crappy MS Wavetable Synth or your soundcards built-in synth AND you can’t digitally route the output of the card back into n-Track to record the audio. Get a loopback cable and plug the cards output into the cards input. Arm a track and record the audio. This is last resort type stuff though. The caveats are double D/A and A/D conversions, you’ll introduce potential synch problems because of the round-trip latency out and back in through the soundcard and it’s generally a pain in the butt.
If you have BIAB, you should have the Roland VSC DXi. Use that for your MIDI sounds in n-Track Virtual Intrument Tracks and “Freeze” if needed.
If you get hung up, drop another note in here… as Arnold says… Ah’ll bee baacck!
D
On reading back, I think I should clarify this a bit more…
Quote:
This is yet another area of n-Track that needs some improvement. In “that other” DAW I use, you just right-click the track and “Apply FX as new take”. Zing. Done. Easy as pie.
“Freeze” in n-Track works pretty well as is, it’s just the take handling is a bit fiddly. If we could get better take management including take “lanes”… that would rock.
Simplifying the menu options for “MID to WAV” conversions would be cool too. This subject comes up often here and simple revamp of some menu options/wording would clear up some confusion for noobs I think.
Also, during my last “big” project I tackled with n-Track, n somehow “forgot” where the freeze files were on several different occasions. BIG pain in the butt. I also discovered that in many cases the frozen track renders were not sample accurate and required “nudging” around on the time-line to get things back in order.
Sorry. This is probably more than richyankee bargained for…
D
there are two three of MIDI playback -
the GM sound module, the VSTi (plugin instrument) and the MIDI sequencer -
VSTi - s self contained sound source fed by the piano roll - the audio generated by the VSTi remains within the track hense PLUGIN - and is treated by N as audio -
GM sound module - (uisually M$oft synth or soundblaster synth) - here the notes on the piano roll leave the host application “N Track” and are passred onto Windows -
the audio generated comes out of the same speakers while N is playing but is not generated by N - hense N cannot have any control over this audio -
MIDI sequencer - notes are programmed into boxes on a grid line basis - many use the M$oft synth to generate their notes others THE BETTER ONES use samples IE N TRACK DRUMS - if you are using a MIDI sequencer within N you have to be sure how the audio is generated
if it is GM you cannot record that audio if it is sampled based you can record it - as the sequenced notes are not stored by N
they have to be saved as a preset and will have to be recalled manually for use again -
so as GM MIDI is not generated within N it cannot easily be recorded during mixdown - this is AUDIO so a MIDI loopback connection cannot operate - for it to be recorded in N the audio output has to be fed back in by connecting the audio out to an audio input (NOT RECOMMENDED) -
as a VSTi (soft synth) is not constrained by this because as said the whole operation is plugged into a track -
a VSTi will mixdown as if it was a wave file - threre is no problems mixing down using a VSTi -
the MIDI on the piano roll can be saved as a .MID file from the piano roll for later use -
if you just want to mixdown the MIDI section (VSTi) of a song then just MUTE the tracks you do not want to be mixed down -
*** MIDI notes generated OUTSIDE of N CANNOT sync to N as they are controlled by Windows -
*** MIDI notes generated by a VSTi will not sync to N if the VSTi does not report its latency correctly (if at all) - ticking latency compnsation in Ns prefs only works when the VSTi senda the correct information to N - no info no sync -
Dr J
Quote:
you have to be sure how the audio is generated if it is GM you cannot record that audio
Not so Doc... the Roland Vsc Synth is GM/GS compatible. It's not sample based and n can render or freeze it's output just fine. Or did I miss something?
D
This is a little more complex than I originally thought, but, after going down the rathole once or twice, I figured out that I could get this DXi to replace the wavetable synth that was selected by default (track by track) by adding a channel - and this shows up as a VSC (a little confusing but I guess this means I have the sound canvas that I knew was hiding in there somewhere… working for me. It required a little fooling around with the dialog that pops up when installing it (I use the term install loosely :)because the outputs were down so low I thought my audio hardware was dying.
Anyway, I think freezing the tracks sounds promising at this point. My sound hdw does not support looping the audio back, so recording it that way would require a physical loopback and I think there is potential for trouble there so I will try the other option first.
Maybe it’s time for a new sound card - I’ll leave that for a little while later.
I appreciate all your advice. It looks liek I will be drawn furhter and further into this (I’ll take the red pill, not that I’m ‘the one’ but it’s always a better ride when you drive 
.
Rich
Good luck Rich.
It’s really easy if you get used to using the VSC DXi that came with BIAB. Just insert it on any MIDI track you import from BAIB and render (muting everything else or solo’ing the MIDI track) or freeze it. I’m hoping V6 of n-Track will simplify this process somewhat… we’ll see… It should NOT be…
Quote:
a little more complex than I originally thought
FWIW, I’m a BIAB man myself. So I’ve been down the same road…
D
"D"
if my memory is correct the M$oft synth is supplied by Roland (MPU 401) -
but as it is part of Windows it is locked into Windows and cannot be taken out and used by itself or (other than have note etc sent to it) be part of an other progran -
the Roland VSC changed all of this as it made the M$oft synth portable - later it became the EDIROL VSC when Roland started EDItion ROLand as their software/computer based products house -
VSC is a GM/CS VSTi / DX plugin
“software sound module” so as you say it will mixdown OK -
there is a better wat of doing this and that is to download the FREE VSRi SYNTH 1 which is based on the ACCESS VIRUS synth and is MIDI CC controlable - superb soft synth with a huge range of GM sounds as part of its preset banks (downloadable from the same page) - both presets and synth 1.dll have to be in the same folder - so open a new folder in N vst plugin folder called synth 1 and put both in there -
http://www.kvraudio.com/get/214.html
Dr J
Thanks, I’m going to take a swing at the vsri synth.
I am pretty happy to be able to use the VSC - freezing the midi tracks and later importing teh wave files works okay. The advantage over doing it with BIAB is that I don’t have a translation issue since I set the final sounds by selecting patches in n-Track with the synth I selected (vsc).
Rich
Can’t you select (only) the midi tracks of the song,
select a new .wav track, and in your sound card
record set-up select (record mix or what you hear)
and render the midi to a single audio track?
But once you have done that, your ability to
re-create the sounds from plug-ins is lost.
So I usually take print-screens of all my plugin
settings, and keep them in the .sng folder
Hey thanks for that link Doc!
Always on the lookout for good GM compatible synths… The Virtual Sound Canvas that ships with BIAB is pretty decent sounding… but you know there’s something better out there somewhere. I’ll check that link out.
D
My hardware can’t loop back on the sound card (actually a built-in sound card on the Dell’s motherboard).
I’m sort of getting used to the freeze tracks now,
The settings on the plug-in are important so I wish I could change them anytime, instead of only when I add the channel, but still this is manageable.
The next thing i sfor me to get back to mixing down to an mp3 or wma file, which is where this trip started.
Rich
OK - but just for the record.
It’s pretty easy.
It’s hard to know the limitations of someone else’s
soundcard. But most are capable full duplex.
And that’s all you really need.
Good Luck
If it was easy, I would have figured it out. I’ll look at it again but I have not been able to see the sound card as an input on the track(s). Maybe it’s because I have my external audio interface selected as a source and not the sound card
That could be it. I’ll try that too.
(My sound card doesn’t support ASIO 
- I’m jealous.
Rich
Yo -
didn’t mean to sound flip about it.
But let’s assume you have midi tracks - however
they are generated.
If you can hit the play button and hear them played
back correctly in your song, then you are half way
there. Is this the case?
If so, just leave them as is.
Open a blank audio track, select your soundcard
recording options. (WDM or MME will suffice for driver
type). Now under your sound cards record source,
select something like this.
My Webpage
(open window full to see detail)
Arm only the blank audio track for record.
Then select only the midi tracks (mute the rest).
Turn LIVE off.
Also make sure you have unchecked (record) on the MIDI
tracks.
Hit the record button, let play thru to the end,
and you will have a .wav of your MIDI files.
You could do one .Wav for drum and one for bass,
so you could add effects to each of those rendered .wavs
I’m almost positive that even sound cards from the
early 90’s (which is what I’m using) have this
capability.
7of11
I’ll give it a go after dinner tonight. I had tried this a coupel of times last night and got an empty track but it could be that I had the midi tracks set to record also (duh!).
2 better than the borg?