ksdb is correct about Media Matters, it’s partisan in the sense that it corrects “conservative” news media more than “liberal” news media. MM, like myself, believes that conservative and/or right-wing news media sources LIE to the American people. MM attempts to correct and/or point out these lies. David Brock, the President, used to work for the “right-wing conspiracy” but eventually saw the error in his ways, and left the “dark side”.
ksdb - please provide the original link to the MM article (I went through this whole chain & coundn’t find it). I don’t think MM is being inconsistent at all.
I used the term perfection because I think both political parties have been perfecting opposition research and the direct result is uglier and uglier campaigns.
Do you watch Commander in Chief? The episode last week was about opposition research.
Here’s an article on Wikipedia - Opposition Research.
Well, blow me down.
Here’s an example where Congress needs to check the President - Senator warns White House on spy program.
Now if this were done by a Democrat, ksdb will would call us dividers. But it was done by a Republican, who’s right about this. The President has abused his power & it’s not division to point out so and act on it.
| Quote (Mr Soul @ April 27 2006,13:56) |
| ksdb is correct about Media Matters, it’s partisan in the sense that it corrects “conservative” news media more than “liberal” news media. MM, like myself, believes that conservative and/or right-wing news media sources LIE to the American people. MM attempts to correct and/or point out these lies. David Brock, the President, used to work for the “right-wing conspiracy” but eventually saw the error in his ways, and left the “dark side”. ksdb - please provide the original link to the MM article (I went through this whole chain & coundn’t find it). I don’t think MM is being inconsistent at all. |
The link is on page 13.
You’re right that MM is generally not inconsistent about wanting to smear Tony Snow and President Bush. My feeling is that they jumped the gun on suggesting that Snow had a conflict-of-interest in being the WHPS, since this wasn’t the same strategy that the DNC was taking. Today they are promoting the DNC strategy ahead of their original strategy.
| Quote (Mr Soul @ April 27 2006,13:56) |
| I used the term perfection because I think both political parties have been perfecting opposition research and the direct result is uglier and uglier campaigns. Do you watch Commander in Chief? The episode last week was about opposition research. |
No, I don’t watch. There’s plenty of political drama in real in the LMSM.
| Quote (Mr Soul @ April 27 2006,13:56) |
| Here’s an article on Wikipedia - Opposition Research. |
Was your link supposed to be an example of “dirty tricks??” You wrote “opposition research” on your link, but it actually goes to the Wikipedia entry on “dirty tricks.” I’m amused that the examples primarily focus on Republican dirty tricks.
| Quote (Mr Soul @ April 27 2006,14:28) |
| Here’s an example where Congress needs to check the President - Senator warns White House on spy program. Now if this were done by a Democrat, ksdb will would call us dividers. But it was done by a Republican, who’s right about this. The President has abused his power & it’s not division to point out so and act on it. |
You’re assumption is wrong. It’s when an issue spreads meme-like through the whole party and is echoed without any constructive solutions set forth that the act becomes divisiveness. When it’s used as a scare tactic to promote an idea of rampant and widespread abuse, then it is divisiveness. Is Arlen Specter divisive?? Possibly so. Is it because he’s a Republican?? No, he is divisive inspite of his party affiliation. He hasn’t exactly endeared himself to the rest of the party.
The Unacceptable Arlen Specter
Specter all over: Left, right, independent
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| It’s when an issue spreads meme-like through the whole party and is echoed without any constructive solutions set forth that the act becomes divisiveness. When it’s used as a scare tactic to promote an idea of rampant and widespread abuse, then it is divisiveness. |
I’m very sorry, but this is what the Republican party leaders have been striving to do for years and have pretty much succeeded in all their efforts. I’m totally amazed that you can’t see that. You’re posts and responses show that you’ve swallowed the party hook, line and sinker and are virtually blind to the state of things.
ksdb - it’s not smear if it’s correct. Please provide concrete proof that MM & the DNC coordinate with each other.
The link on page 13 is not the MM article that you first cited. Am I mistaking this?
phoo - ksdb can’t see it because he’s a blind ideologue. Let there be no mistake, if a Democrat had done what Spector has done, i.e., question Bush, the right-wing attack machine would be all over him. Bush & Rove would be trying to discredit & smear him, just like they’re trying to do with Reid.
| Quote (Mr Soul @ April 27 2006,15:52) |
| ksdb - it’s not smear if it’s correct. Please provide concrete proof that MM & the DNC coordinate with each other. The link on page 13 is not the MM article that you first cited. Am I mistaking this? |
It’s in the fifth post on the page. I think that’s the one you’re looking for.
| Quote (Mr Soul @ April 27 2006,15:52) |
| phoo - ksdb can’t see it because he’s a blind ideologue. Let there be no mistake, if a Democrat had done what Spector has done, i.e., question Bush, the right-wing attack machine would be all over him. Bush & Rove would be trying to discredit & smear him, just like they’re trying to do with Reid. |
Nonsense as usual. Jane Harman and Jo.Ke. spoke out in January this year (TWO Democrats). Where’s the smear that you predicted?
Two Lawmakers Criticize Bush on Eavesdropping
| Quote (phoo @ April 27 2006,15:29) |
| It's when an issue spreads meme-like through the whole party and is echoed without any constructive solutions set forth that the act becomes divisiveness. When it's used as a scare tactic to promote an idea of rampant and widespread abuse, then it is divisiveness. |
I'm very sorry, but this is what the Republican party leaders have been striving to do for years and have pretty much succeeded in all their efforts. I'm totally amazed that you can't see that. You're posts and responses show that you've swallowed the party hook, line and sinker and are virtually blind to the state of things.
Instead of presenting a comment of substance, all you've done is used clichès to attack my visual acumen and alleged dietary choices. How typically liberal of you.
Yes the US controls the UN (or its members). How else would GWB get some 35 countries to sign off on an agreement not to hold the US liable for breaking International Law (hint: By going around the UN and going directly to it’s members. Q: What did they get in return?)? The UN has twice declared the Iraq War illegal. What was our punishment. We control the members, lock, stock & barrel, from either inside or outside the organization.
KingFish
| Quote (TomS @ April 26 2006,18:37) |
| Pretty much agree KingFish. So why is it that many millions who are not rich, and in fact are substantially harmed by repub principles, vote for them?
|
Basically, Penis Envy.
Ok......sarcasm.......but think it over for a while and you might see the power in those 2 words.
KingFish
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| KSDB spoke unto the group and complained “Divider. He’s a divider. Look at the divider. Waaah!” |
Heck YES I’m a divider. I see no reason to give you or your ideas any quarter. If I was at sea I wouldn’t throw a life preserver to a pirate. If I did I’d arrest him or hang him. If you actually would do an honest job of running the country I’d praise you. You haven’t.
When GWB stole the first election I was unhappy. America isn’t supposed to work that way. How can we critisize other countries for election fraud and yet embrace it here? Be that as it was, I said to myself that maybe the Republicans will finally stop their whining about Monica and get the economy going and get back to business and if that happened I would be happy. I have voted Republican many times in my life and have never voted straight ticket. But getting back to business to a Neo-Republican seems to mean SACKING AMERICA because this is what they’ve done. Tax cuts to the rich (in a state of war no less),Massive layoffs, massive bankruptcys, a lack luster market…the historical Republican economy. Of course, those in the Debt sales game must think of this economy as a jubilee.
I’m happy to taunt you…it’s the least I can do.
KingFish
| Quote (KingFish @ April 27 2006,16:29) |
| Yes the US controls the UN (or its members). How else would GWB get some 35 countries to sign off on an agreement not to hold the US liable for breaking International Law (hint: By going around the UN and going directly to it’s members. |
You’re arguing against yourself. Bush wouldn’t have to go around the UN if he controlled it.
| Quote (KingFish @ April 27 2006,16:29) |
| Q: What did they get in return?)? The UN has twice declared the Iraq War illegal. What was our punishment. We control the members, lock, stock & barrel, from either inside or outside the organization. |
You’re very subtly trying to shift directions by saying that we control the members (this isn’t what you originally claimed) and that it’s either from inside or outside of the UN. Again, if the US controlled the UN, they would NOT have any reason or need to go OUTSIDE the UN.
| Quote (KingFish @ April 27 2006,16:29) |
|
KingFish |
| Quote (KingFish @ April 27 2006,16:39) | ||
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Heck YES I’m a divider. I see no reason to give you or your ideas any quarter. If I was at sea I wouldn’t throw a life preserver to a pirate. If I did I’d arrest him or hang him. If you actually would do an honest job of running the country I’d praise you. You haven’t. When GWB stole the first election I was unhappy. America isn’t supposed to work that way. How can we critisize other countries for election fraud and yet embrace it here? Be that as it was, I said to myself that maybe the Republicans will finally stop their whining about Monica and get the economy going and get back to business and if that happened I would be happy. I have voted Republican many times in my life and have never voted straight ticket. But getting back to business to a Neo-Republican seems to mean SACKING AMERICA because this is what they’ve done. Tax cuts to the rich (in a state of war no less),Massive layoffs, massive bankruptcys, a lack luster market…the historical Republican economy. Of course, those in the Debt sales game must think of this economy as a jubilee. I’m happy to taunt you…it’s the least I can do. KingFish |
Your rant speaks for itself. Was the quote box at the top necessary?? You won’t find a direct quote from me that looks anything at all like that nonsense.
Me a liberal? Hmmm…try this…see if you can name the guys I voted for in all the presidential elections since 1972 (the first year I voted).
Go for it.
That was something for you to do. You see me as liberal so it should be an easy task. I am left leaning in many things. To be called “liberal” in the way you did implies a further leaning than is the case.
Add in this…Who do you think I’d vote for today out of all the current hopefuls?
| Quote (phoo @ April 27 2006,17:16) |
| That was something for you to do. You see me as liberal so it should be an easy task. I am left leaning in many things. To be called “liberal” in the way you did implies a further leaning than is the case. Add in this…Who do you think I’d vote for today out of all the current hopefuls? |
You suggested that I was blindly following Republicans. Unless you think that’s a good thing, why don’t you just make a point instead of trying to engage me in a gratuitous guessing game.
So it started like this,
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| ksdb: One thing is for sure, the Decider definitely annoys and confounds the Dividers (liberals). |
Thus the challenge,
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| DrG: But I would challenge you to name three things he has done while in office that have either been of positive benefit to the people of the US or have been successful in anyway concerning the life of the average person in this country. |
which was repeatedly met with a back down and sidestep,
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| ksdb: What kind of responsible adult makes a list of insults about another person and further DEMANDS to have pointless questions answered as if he would be taken seriously?? ksdb: Anyone who would DEMAND a list of what Bush has done right is OBVIOUSLY NOT going to accept or admit that Bush has ever done anything positive… ksdb: Republicans come up with ideas and Democrats only come up with complaints, excuses and protests. Their constant negativity is what makes them dividers. Ksdb: Again, I don’t understand the obsession with demanding a list of three things. It’s as if you guys lack the imagination to come up with your own debate topics. And this one… Kasd: Try showing some real honesty and just point out those things you’re willing to admit are “unquestionably good.” If you say none, then we’ll know you’re indeed a divider. |
Then Kingfish chimed in…
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| 1- I felt the trade restrictions GW put on Canada and Japan were justified and should have been handled by Clinton. Canada and Japan were dumping steel in the US at the cost of American Steel Companys and their workers. It was illegal and I believe in tough steps instead of pidly fines. 2- Harriet Meyers. I had no problem with her and neither did GW. 3- GW’s immigration plan sucked the LEAST of all to me. 4- GW’s hydrogen cell initiative is a good idea albeit 4 years late. Better late than never. I believe as a leader he should have initiated a bypartisan energy program back when he had the numbers to support him. It was a lost opportunity at a time when it would have been an easy sell. |
I ended up agreeing with 1 and 4 of Kingpin’s list.
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| DrG: Thanks King, I had forgotten the trade restrictions and the hydrogen inititive is a good idea (more like 10 years late) but that would not concern Bush. |
Not good enough cries ksdb. I guess we should all walk lockstepped in out support for all things Republican.
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| ksdb: When do you think you truly acknowledged something positive about Bush?? I went back and found one post, but you definitely hedged on it. |
I’m not sure what he thought I “hedged” on. I did not think either Harriet Myers or Bush’s immigration plan were that great. And this is where ksdb has shown hi true colors as a divider. By finding fault with anyone who does not agree with everything the Republicans propose, he has become the “either you are with us or you are against us” guy. Even the head of the party, Bush himself, has said so many times. I can not think of any statement that is more divisive than that.
When Kingfish mentioned…
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| kingfish: You control the UN (yes America always has). |
ksdb’s response was,
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| ksdb: If this was the case, then the UN would have joined the war effort in Iraq. |
This quote is a red flag to the mindset of a divider. You are either for or against us. If we really controlled the UN, they “must” do everything we say.
Of course this thought process does not allow for anyone disagreeing with the status quo. The fact is that the UN did disagree (along with many Americans and people from all over the world) on the Iraq war strategy. This was in spite of repeated and exaggerated lies by the current administration. But keep in mind the concept “divide and conquer” since that has been the strategy of the RNC all along. And, I might add, it has worked. Also keep in mind that anytime a devout Republican is called on this strategy, they call back, “I know you are but what am I?” It is a strategy meant to confuse and frustrate.
Take the current Republican debacle where powerful Republicans are dropping like flies. The only response you can get from republicans is “the democrats are just as bad…” Wow, what a response. First off, it is not true. Second, if you are going to aspire to the lowest common denominator of the democratic party as your best example, get the heck out of the job.
Yes ksdb has proven my contention all along. He sidesteps when asked a simple question. He answers questions with questions. And he, like Bush, can find not wrong with his own party. He will not be turned from the darkside…
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| Nonsense as usual. Jane Harman and Jo.Ke. spoke out in January this year |
Do you mean this isn’t an attack - JANE HARMAN’S BOGUS ATTACK?
Michelle Malkin is a right-wing spinmeister who immediately attacked Harman. Now Malkin got caught spewing falsehoods on this one & was forced to admit that she made a mistake - Malkin Owes Jane Harman An Apology, however, this is exactly how the spin/smear starts, i.e., with someone like Malkin. Then it goes to talk radio, then to other right-wing blogs and web sites like TownHall, then it gets to the right-wing media like FOX.
As for Kerry, they smear him all the time, so it never stops.