The Decider

[BillClarke]

Quote (TomS @ April 25 2006,21:08)

Bill, I don't remember having a good laugh, but I suspect I did, in a strictly friendly way. By the way, didn't your letter contain a false dichotomy? ONe can be for peace in the instant case but not in all cases. Not all of us who have said that the present war is a mistake thought, e.g., that Afghanistan was a mistake - I think that one was justified.

Tom,

Your laugh was definitely done in a friendly way and I was in no sense offended by it, I apologize if I gave any other impression.

A false dichotomy? I suppose you are right. However, that letter was written in response to war protests that had recently been held in the city and reported upon by that paper - I perceived the tone of the protests as being anti-war under any circumstances (Stratford is a small city and it was apparent that a majority of the protesters were the same people who had protested the Afganistan invasion).

I am pro-peace but acknowledge that war is sometimes a 'necessary evil' and I made reference to WWII since I believe most people now agree that it was a justified war (though it had its share of objectors at the time).

I suppose I now owe the protestors an apology - they were right and I was wrong. At the time, I naively believed that if your president claimed to have information that justified his actions then his decision should be supported. I believed he would be an honourable man and if it turned out he was wrong he would bear the consequence of that error and resign. That's what led to the 'buck stops here' question (and your well-deserved chortle response).

Like I said, I was naive.

[ksdb]

Quote (Guest @ April 26 2006,10:16)

Awww ksdb, ya know that stuff on the white house web thingy is all fluff and padding. Ya know ya got ta do that sorta thing when you're applyin' fer a job. Rovey thought it would be a nice touch to put that sorta stuff up there sos I would look all important like. Nah, I was hopin' ya could shed some light fer these good ol' boys bout some of my better accomplishments. Ya know, like that "no youngin' left behind"... I really liked that one. It keeps families from fergettin their kids and leavin them at a mall or such. And that medicare prescription plan thing. I thought that was a goodin but my Maw keeps a callin me trying ta figger out what plan works best fer her. I tell her to just go ask Dad, he's a smart guy. Not sure why he keeps mumblin "Stay the course" and "A thousand points a light". What is a "point a light" anywho. Well, I'm a countin on ya ksdb. Do me proud...

Dubya, I think this would be an excellent time for you to speak for yourself. We know you're not one to brag, but you have the floor.

[BillClarke]

Quote (ksdb @ April 26 2006,11:06)

What exactly are you claiming when you pick sides by pretending to bring "perspective?"

Simply this, there is no shame in admitting to error.

In fact, I would suggest that rather than being a sign of weakness, admissions of error are a sign of strength.

That's all. That's the perspective I wished to provide.

[system]

<!–QuoteBegin>

Quote

Dubya, I think this would be an excellent time for you to speak for yourself. We know you’re not one to brag, but you have the floor.

Why thankya ksdb. As far as I recollect, I taint never been ta Fort Brag. Far as the floor is concerned, gots a pretty rug with my seal on it.

Look, things have not been goin good fer me lately. They tell me my ‘approval rating’ has fallen deeper than a Texas oil well and all my best buds are either in jail or runnin fer the hills.
No, sorry bud, can’t think of much that is going well right now. I appreciate you stickin up fer me though. If ya can’t be good, its at least good ta have friends.

Yep, things is so bad right now that I don’t think they is gonna let me run fer a third term. Ah well, I can always go live with my oil buddies in Saudi Arabia.

God bless America

GW Bush

[system]

By the way, how come it says unregistered next to my name. I have a license…

or are they a talkin bout my guns…

[DrGuitar]

This is one active topic. I leave for a couple of hours and 2 pages go by.

<!–QuoteBegin>

Quote

Leave it to Dr.G to NOT be able to come up with an original idea.

Man, are you out in left field. Look ksdb, I no longer care if you have anything nice to say about Bush. Like I said before, I have acknowledged more positives attributed to the man than you have. So I already ate my humble pie. You see ksdb, I do not believe learning as a bad thing. In fact I embrace it. And if that means I am wrong at times, so be it. That is called honest growth. You might want to try it sometime. It is an enlightening experience. All of a sudden new pathways are introduced to the neural pathways in your brain. Feels good…

[ksdb]

Quote (BillClarke @ April 26 2006,10:23)

Simply this, there is no shame in admitting to error. In fact, I would suggest that rather than being a sign of weakness, admissions of error are a sign of strength. That's all. That's the perspective I wished to provide.

But what "error" are you talking about?? If there is an error, it would be on the side of those who can't and won't admit that Bush has ever done anything good.

[DrGuitar]

Quote (ksdb @ April 26 2006,10:48)

But what "error" are you talking about?? If there is an error, it would be on the side of those who can't and won't admit that Bush has ever done anything good.

Shhhhhh.. That's ok ksdb. There is no error. Calm down... you're gonna be ok... take a deep breath... See, no error... it's ok... shhhhh....

You're ok.... Bush is ok.... Iraq is ok.... shhhhh.....

democrats are bad... bad people... bad dividers... republicans are good... make money.... it's ok ksdb.... you'll be fine....

[ksdb]

Quote (DrGuitar @ April 26 2006,10:47)

This is one active topic. I leave for a couple of hours and 2 pages go by. <!–QuoteBegin> Quote Leave it to Dr.G to NOT be able to come up with an original idea. Man, are you out in left field.

No, you copped Monty Python. It wasn’t original.

Quote (DrGuitar @ April 26 2006,10:47)

Look ksdb, I no longer care if you have anything nice to say about Bush. Like I said before, I have acknowledged more positives attributed to the man than you have.

When do you think you truly acknowledged something positive about Bush?? I went back and found one post, but you definitely hedged on it. You also admitted to having anger. If you have issues, they shouldn’t be projected onto me or others who don’t think the same way you do.

<!–QuoteBegin>

Quote

Thanks King, I had forgotten the trade restrictions and the hydrogen inititive is a good idea (more like 10 years late) but that would not concern Bush. So I think you have slightly dispelled my anger for this current administration. The other two “positives” you mentioned I have some disagreements with but you done good.

Quote (DrGuitar @ April 26 2006,10:47)

So I already ate my humble pie.

Not really, you qualified it into something you could quickly brush off.

Quote (DrGuitar @ April 26 2006,10:47)

You see ksdb, I do not believe learning as a bad thing. In fact I embrace it. And if that means I am wrong at times, so be it. That is called honest growth. You might want to try it sometime. It is an enlightening experience. All of a sudden new pathways are introduced to the neural pathways in your brain. Feels good…

Sorry, but this is just corny.

[ksdb]

Quote (DrGuitar @ April 26 2006,10:55)

Quote (ksdb @ April 26 2006,10:48) But what "error" are you talking about?? If there is an error, it would be on the side of those who can't and won't admit that Bush has ever done anything good. Shhhhhh.. That's ok ksdb. There is no error. Calm down... you're gonna be ok... take a deep breath... See, no error... it's ok... shhhhh.... You're ok.... Bush is ok.... Iraq is ok.... shhhhh..... democrats are bad... bad people... bad dividers... republicans are good... make money.... it's ok ksdb.... you'll be fine....

Is there some reason you can't let Bill speak for himself, and especially without resorting to mockery??

[MidnightToker]

<!–QuoteBegin>

Quote

Leave it to Mrs.Oul …

And when he can’t argue with you on facts, he resorts to smear.

The sentence I picked was the most important sentence which is why I picked it.

[TomS]

Quote (BillClarke @ April 26 2006,10:17)

Quote (TomS @ April 25 2006,21:08) Bill, I don't remember having a good laugh, but I suspect I did, in a strictly friendly way. By the way, didn't your letter contain a false dichotomy? ONe can be for peace in the instant case but not in all cases. Not all of us who have said that the present war is a mistake thought, e.g., that Afghanistan was a mistake - I think that one was justified. Tom, Your laugh was definitely done in a friendly way and I was in no sense offended by it, I apologize if I gave any other impression. A false dichotomy? I suppose you are right. However, that letter was written in response to war protests that had recently been held in the city and reported upon by that paper - I perceived the tone of the protests as being anti-war under any circumstances (Stratford is a small city and it was apparent that a majority of the protesters were the same people who had protested the Afganistan invasion). I am pro-peace but acknowledge that war is sometimes a 'necessary evil' and I made reference to WWII since I believe most people now agree that it was a justified war (though it had its share of objectors at the time). I suppose I now owe the protestors an apology - they were right and I was wrong. At the time, I naively believed that if your president claimed to have information that justified his actions then his decision should be supported. I believed he would be an honourable man and if it turned out he was wrong he would bear the consequence of that error and resign. That's what led to the 'buck stops here' question (and your well-deserved chortle response). Like I said, I was naive.

We agree on the prniciple, and that is the key thing.

[ksdb]

Quote (Mr Soul @ April 26 2006,11:05)

Leave it to Mrs.Oul ...

And when he can't argue with you on facts, he resorts to smear.

The sentence I picked was the most important sentence which is why I picked it.
No, it was out of context because you can't argue the larger point. It's okay to admit that you're wrong. Even Dr.G and Bill said so.

[DrGuitar]

<!–QuoteBegin>

Quote

Thanks King, I had forgotten the trade restrictions and the hydrogen inititive is a good idea (more like 10 years late) but that would not concern Bush. So I think you have slightly dispelled my anger for this current administration. The other two “positives” you mentioned I have some disagreements with but you done good.

I wrote “but that would not concern Bush” because he was not the president 10 years ago… so I was not blaming him, I was making the point that it should have happened during the Clinton presidency…

So I completely agreed with 2 out of the 4 positives Kingfish stated. Again, I have agreed to more positives than you have ksdb.

By the way, if you can get rid of the chip on your shoulder, you might stop reading negatives into posts made.

And as far as the calming post…

<!–QuoteBegin>

Quote

(DrGuitar @ April 26 2006,10:55) <!–QuoteBegin> Quote (ksdb @ April 26 2006,10:48) But what “error” are you talking about?? If there is an error, it would be on the side of those who can’t and won’t admit that Bush has ever done anything good. Shhhhhh… That’s ok ksdb. There is no error. Calm down… you’re gonna be ok… take a deep breath… See, no error… it’s ok… shhhhh… You’re ok… Bush is ok… Iraq is ok… shhhhh… democrats are bad… bad people… bad dividers… republicans are good… make money… it’s ok ksdb… you’ll be fine…

You seemed to be getting rattled. Just trying to lower your stress level a bit…

[ksdb]

Quote (DrGuitar @ April 26 2006,11:22)

I wrote “but that would not concern Bush” because he was not the president 10 years ago… so I was not blaming him, I was making the point that it should have happened during the Clinton presidency…

No one said you were BLAMING Bush. You just weren’t giving him credit and that was the point. You wouldn’t give credit.

Quote (DrGuitar @ April 26 2006,11:22)

So I completely agreed with 2 out of the 4 positives Kingfish stated. Again, I have agreed to more positives than you have ksdb.

You didn’t “completely” agree with anything. You listed two items together with a disclaimer and then you admitted disagreements with the other two. What part did you COMPLETELY agree with?? Second, why do you insist on making this some sort of a contest?? I owe you NO list of positives. I’ve stated that there are plenty of things I feel that the President is doing fine. It requires no list to justify.

Quote (DrGuitar @ April 26 2006,11:22)

By the way, if you can get rid of the chip on your shoulder, you might stop reading negatives into posts made.

I call it like I see it and you’ve been explicitly negative several times. Remember this list:

<!–QuoteBegin>

Quote

misguided egocentric moronic psychosis

Quote (DrGuitar @ April 26 2006,11:22)

And as far as the calming post…

Was that supposed to be calming?? It just looked corny and silly.

Quote (DrGuitar @ April 26 2006,11:22)

You seemed to be getting rattled. Just trying to lower your stress level a bit…

Sorry to spoil your illusion, but I’m perfectly calm. You, on the other hand, have explicitly admitted to having anger. Maybe the comment about reading negatives and having a chip on the shoulder is a misplaced projection of your own turmoil.

[DrGuitar]

lol

[ksdb]

Here’s an example of some “mature, optimistic, unifying” comments from the DNC regarding Bush’s new press secretary who has not yet served a day on the job.

<!–QuoteBegin>

Quote

“The American people should get ready for another Snow job from the Bush White House. Tony Snow represents more of the same, not the fresh start the Administration needed,” said Democratic National Committee Communications Director Karen Finney. “This is an interdepartmental move from one part of the conservative infrastructure to another that allows a darling of the right-wing to deliver the same misleading message, cherry-picked information and spin to the American people. Josh Bolten’s plan for re-energizing the White House called for more happy talk and a better PR campaign for the same failed policies. Snow’s track record of delivering misleading rhetoric is a perfect fit for this Administration that refuses to change and has a problem telling the truth.”

[MidnightToker]

And you think the RNC doesn’t do this?

Please provide a link to the quote you used. I can’t find it on the DNC site.

I noticed you didn’t comment on the James Tobin case I cited. Do you approve of this law-breaking?

[DrGuitar]

12 full pages of sidestepping ksdb.

The best you can do is criticize a criticism. Most of the time you either take the criticism out of context or put it out of order so it no longer makes sense. The latest one is this

<!–QuoteBegin>

Quote

I call it like I see it and you’ve been explicitly negative several times. Remember this list: misguided egocentric moronic psychosis

As you might remember back to that page, the full phrase went like this

<!–QuoteBegin>

Quote

I was trying to point out that your statement brings these words to mind: misguided egocentric moronic psychosis

this was in reference to this statement made by you…
<!–QuoteBegin>

Quote

One thing is for sure, the Decider definitely annoys and confounds the Dividers (liberals).

That statement is misguided"
mis·guid·ed (ms-gdd) KEY

ADJECTIVE:

Based or acting on error; misled

egocentric:e·go·cen·tric (g-sntrk, g-) KEY

ADJECTIVE:

Holding the view that the ego is the center, object, and norm of all experience.

Confined in attitude or interest to one’s own needs or affairs.
Caring only about oneself; selfish.

Moronic:
silly, foolish. A statement with no merit.

psychosis: A severe mental disorder, with or without organic damage, characterized by derangement of personality and loss of contact with reality and causing deterioration of normal social functioning.

The last one is probably a little over the top… but only a little. So although you may see this as a terrible hit to you personally, I was speaking about your words.

Anyway, no one really cares anymore and you have proved the point about Republicans being dividers. You see ksdb, in your effort to duck any possible responsibility for your words, you have made people not care about an important topic. And that is one of the chief ways republican spin doctors work. Spin the question so long and so deeply that people stop caring about problems in the administration. This in turn leaves everyone feeling angry at each other about nothing getting done except things that help the rich. The rich get richer, the middleclass and poor get poorer and no one is able to stomach the truth of WHY cause they are so tired of being spun.

[ksdb]

Quote (Mr Soul @ April 26 2006,12:26)

And you think the RNC doesn’t do this?

If you have an example, show one. Let’s see if it’s as vitriolic as this is.

Quote (Mr Soul @ April 26 2006,12:26)

I noticed you didn’t comment on the James Tobin case I cited. Do you approve of this law-breaking?

It was old news lumped in with a typical DU complaints. What were you expecting me to say?? The man appears to have been rightfully convicted.